NBA 2012-2013

[smokymountainrain]

I think Wade is much more likely to go in to the HOF than Manu.

I agree.

Wade is a lock for first ballot. Manu is damn close to being a lock - he'll be there.

[MarkGrace]

I think Wade is much more likely to go in to the HOF than Manu.

Wade is an easy in, but Manu's getting in as well. As of now all these guys are HOFers:

Duncan
Manu
TP
Bron
Wade

I could see a push for Allen but he's pretty iffy. If the Heat win several championships I could see Bosh slide in as one of those types that was on several great teams and so he gets included. But right now that seems pretty unlikely.

[Art Vandelay]

Wade is an easy in, but Manu's getting in as well. As of now all these guys are HOFers:

Duncan
Manu
TP
Bron
Wade

I could see a push for Allen but he's pretty iffy. If the Heat win several championships I could see Bosh slide in as one of those types that was on several great teams and so he gets included. But right now that seems pretty unlikely.

I think Ray gets in, due to the length of his career, and being the at the top of the leaderboard in several shooting categories.

[MarkGrace]

I think Ray gets in, due to the length of his career, and being the at the top of the leaderboard in several shooting categories.

Yeah, definitely possible. 10x AS, played as a key contributor on a championship team, won a gold medal, career leaders in 3pters made, Oscar worthy performance in He Got Game, etc.

[The_Douger]

Is Manu really a shoe in and Ray isn't?

I think I'd choose Ray Allen's career over Ginobili's. Ray was the man on some of the teams he was on, he played in a couple Finals with Boston and won one, one of the best shooters of this group of players, etc.

Ginobili is a great player, but I think Ray's career has been better. Ginobili's essentially the Toni Kukoc of this Spurs team is how I see it.

[smokymountainrain]

Is Manu really a shoe in and Ray isn't?

I think I'd choose Ray Allen's career over Ginobili's. Ray was the man on some of the teams he was on, he played in a couple Finals with Boston and won one, one of the best shooters of this group of players, etc.

Ginobili is a great player, but I think Ray's career has been better. Ginobili's essentially the Toni Kukoc of this Spurs team is how I see it.

Disagree. I'd take Ginobili's career over Allen's. More championships, better player at the height of their respective careers.

[clackamascoug]

Good question. Whose career would you rather have. Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili?

Let's see.... one player's made 180 million the other player 80 million.... I guess I'll take the 80 million career, and three more championships.

(did I say that?)

[MarkGrace]

Is Manu really a shoe in and Ray isn't?

I think I'd choose Ray Allen's career over Ginobili's. Ray was the man on some of the teams he was on, he played in a couple Finals with Boston and won one, one of the best shooters of this group of players, etc.

Ginobili is a great player, but I think Ray's career has been better. Ginobili's essentially the Toni Kukoc of this Spurs team is how I see it.

Manu has been one of the most underrated players in the league because his minutes played obscured how great he was. For his career he has averaged just 27.5 mpg, but his per minute production and efficiency stats have always been elite. Based on those metrics, there was a time there when he was really only topped by Kobe for production among SGs in the league. His minutes have always made his per game numbers look less impressive than what his actual production really was. And somehow he only made two all-star games (but made the same number of all-NBA teams as Ray at two).

But anyway, dude's been a key part of three championships, and headed for 4 (though his impact has clearly diminished greatly). He's also had a highly decorated international career. He's in.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Manu has been one of the most underrated players in the league because his minutes played obscured how great he was. For his career he has averaged just 27.5 mpg, but his per minute production and efficiency stats have always been elite. Based on those metrics, there was a time there when he was really only topped by Kobe for production among SGs in the league. His minutes have always made his per game numbers look less impressive than what his actual production really was. And somehow he only made two all-star games (but made the same number of all-NBA teams as Ray at two).

But anyway, dude's been a key part of three championships, and headed for 4 (though his impact has clearly diminished greatly). He's also had a highly decorated international career. He's in.

Should Manu get more credit because his mpg has been lower or get dinged for that? I wonder how some other players' efficiency could improve if they were asked to play 7-8 fewer mpg for an entire career. As it stands now, Allen and Manu have very similar p36 production stats for their careers, but Allen has done it for 44,000 minutes and Manu 20,000.

I agree that Manu is in. I think Ray is a lock. Nearly top 20 all-time in points, leader by a mile in 3pters made by the time he's done (already 300 more than Reggie in 100+ fewer games), close to top 5 in FT% made, multiple finals, at least one ring. I liked Manu's game better at his peak than Ray's. I think he was far more dangerous and versatile on offense. But we didn't get to see Allen with a good big until he was on the downside. Ray matched up with Duncan his whole career would've certainly changed things for him in a dramatic way.

[Tone Loc]

Should Manu get more credit because his mpg has been lower or get dinged for that? I wonder how some other players' efficiency could improve if they were asked to play 7-8 fewer mpg for an entire career. As it stands now, Allen and Manu have very similar p36 production stats for their careers, but Allen has done it for 44,000 minutes and Manu 20,000.

I agree that Manu is in. I think Ray is a lock. Nearly top 20 all-time in points, leader by a mile in 3pters made by the time he's done (already 300 more than Reggie in 100+ fewer games), close to top 5 in FT% made, multiple finals, at least one ring. I liked Manu's game better at his peak than Ray's. I think he was far more dangerous and versatile on offense. But we didn't get to see Allen with a good big until he was on the downside. Ray matched up with Duncan his whole career would've certainly changed things for him in a dramatic way.

Ray is a lock. I am not sure how Manu getting less minutes helps his case. If you aren't on the floor you aren't helping. Ray has averaged almost 20 ppg for 16 years. Arguably the best shooter in the game. Manu has only played in the league for 10 and has only averaged 15 ppg. Shuttlesworth has better stats across the board.

One other note. If you put in Reggie Miller, you have to put in Ray. Ray has a championship, and better numbers.

[smokymountainrain]

Good question. Whose career would you rather have. Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili?

Let's see.... one player's made 180 million the other player 80 million.... I guess I'll take the 80 million career, and three more championships.

(did I say that?)

Good point. I'd starve if I only had $80 million.

Signed,
LS

[The_Douger]

Manu has been one of the most underrated players in the league because his minutes played obscured how great he was. For his career he has averaged just 27.5 mpg, but his per minute production and efficiency stats have always been elite. Based on those metrics, there was a time there when he was really only topped by Kobe for production among SGs in the league. His minutes have always made his per game numbers look less impressive than what his actual production really was. And somehow he only made two all-star games (but made the same number of all-NBA teams as Ray at two).

But anyway, dude's been a key part of three championships, and headed for 4 (though his impact has clearly diminished greatly). He's also had a highly decorated international career. He's in.

I've always just thought of him as a great player when healthy, but injuries have limited him somewhat and that's kept him from always being in the starting lineup and leading him to assuming the sixth man role. I'm well aware of how good he's been when he played, but it just seems like Ray Allen had a longer time of being an elite player despite not being on great teams all the time. He probably also suffers. right or wrong, from playing with other great players like Parker and Duncan, Duncan being arguable for the best at the PF postion, ever.

[MarkGrace]

I was wondering who was going to be the first to slum it with a Shuttlesworth reference. Can I get a Logo reference, too?

[cougjunkie]

Manu is the only player with a euroleague title, gold medal and nba title. Remember the hall of fame is about your entire basketball career it is not NBA specific.

[Indy Coug]