The NBA Lockout

[Surfah]

The players are idiots.

[Sizzle]

The players are idiots.

Signed, the guys willing to give players like Rashard Lewis $22.5 mil per year.

[Surfah]

Signed, the guys willing to give players like Rashard Lewis $22.5 mil per year.

The owners are idiots too. Don't get me wrong, but the players are going to lose this battle.

[Sizzle]

The owners are idiots too. Don't get me wrong, but the players are going to lose this battle.

Totally agree. Both sides are idiots and there is no doubt the players cave first, especially given how many of them live paycheck to paycheck. But the owners are not without fault. Significant fault, IMO.

[Surfah]

Totally agree. Both sides are idiots and there is no doubt the players cave first, especially given how many of them live paycheck to paycheck. But the owners are not without fault. Significant fault, IMO.

Agreed. There is a reason that so many teams lost money. And much of that is the direct result of poor ownership. But the owners aren't going to lose this thing. The players as many others have already said are going to lose more by missing games. They might as well swallow the bullet now and start getting paid. Because they'll be swallowing the same bullet later only they'll have missed out on some salary. How much money are Fisher and crew willing to lose over principle? I suspect as soon as the first week or two go by the lesser players will force his hand.

[CardiacCoug]

The owners are idiots too. Don't get me wrong, but the players are going to lose this battle.

Agreed. The owners have made it pretty clear they are fully prepared to skip the entire season if that's what it takes.

Sure you can say that KG and other guys with huge contracts have the most to lose (in pure dollar amounts) but they also don't have very much to lose because they are on the tail end of their careers and have made ridiculous amounts of money already. Having a guy like Derek Fisher represent the players seems ridiculous to me. The dude is only making 3.5 million per year and is at the end of his career -- of course he wants to drive a hard bargain.

It's the guys who are early in their careers or have just finished their rookie contracts who probably want to get a deal done. You figure losing one year of income for these guys is the equivalent to losing 5+ years of income for the rest of us (average NBA career only about 5 years).

[TripletDaddy]

lol. Derek Fisher "represents" the players in the same way the 8th grade class president is the "president" of the school. Fisher is not driving any bargains nor is he holding out. He isn't even authorized to do such anyway.

Go owners! Will Billy Hunter have a job after all this is done? The owners are losing money on these teams and now they are faced with the prospect of skipping an entire season of payroll? Adios, players. You have zero leverage.

[CardiacCoug]

lol. Derek Fisher "represents" the players in the same way the 8th grade class president is the "president" of the school. Fisher is not driving any bargains nor is he holding out. He isn't even authorized to do such anyway.

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP454f...671f1b6bf.html

[Donuthole]

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP454f...671f1b6bf.html

I'm not sure anything in that article contradicts what TripleDad said. To the contrary, it seems to support what he said.

[CardiacCoug]

I'm not sure anything in that article contradicts what TripleDad said. To the contrary, it seems to support what he said.

Cool -- you guys are the lawyers and understand how this stuff works.

Why exactly is the President of the NBPA totally irrelevant to these discussions? Seems like he is there in the discussions "representing" the players and communicating to the players from my lay person perspective.

[TripletDaddy]

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP454f...671f1b6bf.html

Right. He goes to every meeting as the player rep. The lawyers are the ones crafting the proposals. The other week, Carmelo, Wade, and LBJ went to the meetings. What are the odds those guys can even perform basic arithmatic let alone calculate salary cap implications and come up with various revenue sharing scenarios over the life of the next CBA?

Fisher sits in the meeting, Billy hunter and a team of attorneys explain things, Fisher takes the info to the players meeting, again with more lawyers to explain things.

Remember back in junior high school when the class president would meet with the principal to discuss "school Issues." same sort of thing.

[Donuthole]

Cool -- you guys are the lawyers and understand how this stuff works.

Why exactly is the President of the NBPA totally irrelevant to these discussions? Seems like he is there in the discussions "representing" the players and communicating to the players from my lay person perspective.

I think totally irrelevant is a bit of an overstatement, but if I had to assess weight, I'd say his voice is about 5-10% of the players side. The article all but points out that the agents are out there negotiating for things that the players might not agree to, and doing so without Fisher's blessing.

Fisher's role is to express the desires of the players and to relay back to the players what's going on. Other than that, the union attorneys are taking it in the ass . . . er. . . doing the negotiating with the owners and their lawyers. Fisher is essentially a pawn to make the players feel like they have a role in the process.

[Guest]

Karma.

[TripletDaddy]

I think totally irrelevant is a bit of an overstatement, but if I had to assess weight, I'd say his voice is about 5-10% of the players side. The article all but points out that the agents are out there negotiating for things that the players might not agree to, and doing so without Fisher's blessing.

Fisher's role is to express the desires of the players and to relay back to the players what's going on. Other than that, the union attorneys are taking it in the ass . . . er. . . doing the negotiating with the owners and their lawyers. Fisher is essentially a pawn to make the players feel like they have a role in the process.

Agreed. Fish has a voice, but likely only a token voice.

At some point, the union lawyers almost have a fiduciary duty to start negotiating to get a deal done because it is clearly not in the players best interest to drag it out longer and lose an entire season. My guess is that is what we are seeing now....the attorneys are starting to go rogue to craft a deal that will still get the players paid.

Like I asked before, are some of these players union attorneys going to have jobs when all this is done?

[CardiacCoug]

Right. He goes to every meeting as the player rep. The lawyers are the ones crafting the proposals. The other week, Carmelo, Wade, and LBJ went to the meetings. What are the odds those guys can even perform basic arithmatic let alone calculate salary cap implications and come up with various revenue sharing scenarios over the life of the next CBA?

Fisher sits in the meeting, Billy hunter and a team of attorneys explain things, Fisher takes the info to the players meeting, again with more lawyers to explain things.

Remember back in junior high school when the class president would meet with the principal to discuss "school Issues." same sort of thing.

Or basic spelling. Gotcha.

So you're saying that the lawyers tell the players what to think and that NBA players are too dumb to know anything except what the lawyers tell them -- that's where you're headed with this?

Hope SU doesn't open this thread.