NBA Playoffs 2011

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Deron has won 4 playoff series, and reached the conference finals. Paul has won 1 playoff series. In fact, Deron has played in exactly twice as many playoff series as Paul, and has won as many as Paul has played in. Your previous arguments preclude you from arguing about quality of teammates and quality of opponents because you won't accept the argument that coaching style impacted each players' statistical productivity.

This started as a "what has Deron ever done against quality competition" but you now want to morph it into a stat exhibition. Debating playoff success bring this back to the implication that Paul is better in more important games (where your argument first started). Clearly he's not, because, he has hardly any playoff success.

FTR, I admit that this is somewhat of a ridiculous argument. It is, however, no more ridiculous than claiming Paul is undeniably better than Deron based on 4 first-round playoff games against the Lakers.

I started this whole things out by saying that Paul is the better, more dominant player in the postseason than Deron Williams. MG didn't like the subjectivity and asked for evidence, so I gave him some evidence. As it turns out, Paul is better in every statistical category and a far better defender. It didn't help out MG's side of things.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I never said he was. It's mentioned in the same post you cut that quote out of, so I'm not sure how you missed it.

Then why the hell are we having this discussion? Did you not realize that the stats in no way shape or form help out the argument in favor of Williams? Why did you ask for evidence? If Williams led in any category than I would be willing to say the statistical spread is insignificant. Hell, Williams isn't even a better free throw shooter than Paul. I'm looking for something, anything rather than three first round series wins for the Jazz and one second round series win against the Golden State Warriors that indicates that Williams is better than Paul. I keep drawing blanks.

[Donuthole]

I started this whole things out by saying that Paul is the better, more dominant player in the postseason than Deron Williams. MG didn't like the subjectivity and asked for evidence, so I gave him some evidence. As it turns out, Paul is better in every statistical category and a far better defender. It didn't help out MG's side of things.

As it turns out, Deron is the far better post-season player. He's had 4 times as much success in the postseason as Chris Paul.

Not sure where you're getting the "far better defender" stuff, but I presume it's from the steals and rebounding statistics (neither of which is very indicative of a guard's ability to defend).

[smokymountainrain]

Going back to Wake Forest and then in the NBA, Chris Paul is one of the worst defensive PGs I've seen. I think Williams realizes it too considering he kicks Paul's ass nearly every time they've gone head to head.

But yes, CP is pretty good at getting steals.

[smokymountainrain]

12-0 Memphis run. Popovich is pissed.

[Donuthole]

12-0 Memphis run. Popovich is pissed.

A 14-0 run to start the 3rd Q and a 12-4 run to end it.

[smokymountainrain]

A 14-0 run to start the 3rd Q and a 12-4 run to end it.

Ewing theory at work right now for Memphis. I don't think it surprises anybody who has watched Rudy Gay for a long time, however.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I'm waiting for a scrub for SA to start something on the court to bait a couple of the Grizzlies into taking two steps onto the court so they get suspended for the next game.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

27-9 FT advantage so far for Dallas as they take a 10 pt lead...where's funk?

[New Mexican Disaster]

The memphis-San Antonio series is absolutely shocking.

[TripletDaddy]

Spurs?

[Art Vandelay]

It makes me sad to see the end of the Timmy Duncan era. He is favorite non-Blazer of the last 15+ years. Unless, PDx miracuolousy ends up with Jimmer, the torch will be passed.

[CardiacCoug]

The memphis-San Antonio series is absolutely shocking.

San Antonio will win the next 3. Mark it down.

[New Mexican Disaster]

San Antonio will win the next 3. Mark it down.

Okay, I will mark it down.

[MarkGrace]

Then why the hell are we having this discussion?

Because I'm disagreeing with this new bit of evidence you've offered for Paul's superiority.

Did you not realize that the stats in no way shape or form help out the argument in favor of Williams? Why did you ask for evidence? If Williams led in any category than I would be willing to say the statistical spread is insignificant.

Of course I realized that. Paul has always been the better player statistically for their entire careers, yet a legitimate debate has always existed. Next to Lebron/Kobe, they are probably the league's two most compared players. And like that debate, which on its face statistically almost universally favors Lebron (he leads in about every meaningful statistic and where Kobe has any type of advantage it's almost negligible -- besides FT shooting), people still prefer the other guy for a variety of reasons not related to the stastistical output. Former and current coaches, players, GM's, fans, etc., have debated Paul/Williams for years with several siding Deron despite the fact that I think everyone realizes Paul has superior numbers. Those arguments are well-worn and there's nothing new to see there. They've been hashed, re-hashed, and hashed again. There is simply nothing new or insightful to offer in terms of laying out the statistics and parsing through the justifications again, because we've heard them over and over for the last handful of years.

What I thought you were doing was offering something new to the debate, and I was simply countering that I don't think this bit of evidence is terribly conclusive or meaningful in the way you think it is. But apparently we weren't after anything new here, we were just biding time until resorting to the usual tropes.