"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[smokymountainrain]

This type of comment doesn't make sense to me and never will. Why would you dismiss production simply because of what it looks like? Production is production. CJ's gorgeous shot doesn't make him a better shooter than Kevin Martin's ugly mechanics make him.

Because I have little confidence that he will get much better due to the things I mentioned. I could be wrong and hope I am, but that's that source of my fear in regard to Kanter.

[Jacob]

I see a guy who lacks in game athleticism and who plays extremely short out on the court.

And I don't see those things. Not really. I see a guy with superior lateral movement compared to the average NBA Center and especially compared to recent Jazz post players. I see a guy who rebounds about as well as anyone his height in the league. Yes, he got blocked too many times. But I still see plenty of athleticism.

[Jacob]

Since I started this whole thing, I will just clarify. My worry about Kanter has nothing to do with how he has played in his rookie year, the Euro tournament last year (when he played very well) or summer league (where he has had some good moments as well). IOW, I think he has played pretty well in his limited opportunities. What worries me about him is that he seems slow, lacks explosion, and plays short. Does that mean he's a bust? No, but those are the main reasons I worry about him perhaps being a bust.

So he's more Bill Laimbeer than Blake Griffin. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I think if Kanter started and played 32 mpg this year, he'd already put up at least 12 and 11, close to his p36 numbers as a rookie. He'd have some bad possessions and look out of place once in a while, but even as a young player with very little experience he already looked like an elite rebounder with solid low post defense. And even if his post game against NBA talent is limited, his counters and rebounding would be enough to get him some cheap shots and trips to the line.

With how good his shot looks, I think with experience and being paired with the right other big (which Favors should be) I think Kanter will be a good player and a nice fit for where the Jazz appear to be going with this roster (which to me just means I like him being with Favors, Burks, and Hayward...who knows what else is going to happen).

[smokymountainrain]

And I don't see those things. Not really. I see a guy with superior lateral movement compared to the average NBA Center and especially compared to recent Jazz post players. I see a guy who rebounds about as well as anyone his height in the league. Yes, he got blocked too many times. But I still see plenty of athleticism.

I see athleticism when I watch videos of him in an empty gym. I'm not seeing it in actual games. The one glimpse of empty gym athleticism I've seen out of him - yesterday when he got high above the rim on a dunk attempt - he missed the dunk, so even that play lost some luster.

[smokymountainrain]

So he's more Bill Laimbeer than Blake Griffin. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

If he became Laimbeer, that would be great.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Burks having a nice all-around game.

Dennis Scott was loving Burks. After one of the Burks pull up jumpers from 18 feet in the first half Scott said something like, "Save it, young guy. We know you've got it. Pack your bags and go home. Save it for the real games."

[MarkGrace]

Because I have little confidence that he will get much better due to the things I mentioned. I could be wrong and hope I am, but that's that source of my fear in regard to Kanter.

You have little confidence that a kid who just played at 19 after a nearly two year layoff from a full season of competitve basketball will get any better?

I do think his athleticism and movement could be limiting factors, but I don't think they equate to bust. Like I said, people are already starting to mention Hoffa and Kwame Brown, despite the fact that amidst the circumstances mentioned above, Kanter just had a better season than either of those two did at virtually any point in their careers.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I see athleticism when I watch videos of him in an empty gym. I'm not seeing it in actual games. The one glimpse of empty gym athleticism I've seen out of him - yesterday when he got high above the rim on a dunk attempt - he missed the dunk, so even that play lost some luster.

That's the part that is odd to watch right now for me. When he's on defense, he can box out, go after the rebound and get pretty good lift while going for the ball. But as soon as he has that ball in his hands, he stays glued to the floor in the post. I still contend that it is a lack of confidence on offense more than anything else, and his mind thinking of the next 2-3 moves he has to make and forgetting to put jump on that list.

[smokymountainrain]

With how good his shot looks, I think with experience and being paired with the right other big (which Favors should be) I think Kanter will be a good player and a nice fit for where the Jazz appear to be going with this roster (which to me just means I like him being with Favors, Burks, and Hayward...who knows what else is going to happen).

I think the Jazz either need to allow him or coach him to add a face up jumper to his arsenal. He does seem to be a pretty good shooter, but that hasn't been part of game early in his career.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I think the Jazz either need to allow him or coach him to take add a face up jumper to his arsenal. He does seem to be a pretty good shooter, but that hasn't been part of game early in his career.

I agree, but for some reason the Jazz talk about what they want to do in summer league but it almost never happens. KOC and Corbin both talked about getting Kanter to face up, but he's done it maybe once or twice in 4 games now. They've even had other guys being the pick at the top instead of Kanter on way too many possessions, so he's getting little work on his SnR game here too.

In games that mean less than nothing, is it really bad to tell him to cast a few from 15 feet to see how that goes?

[smokymountainrain]

Burks having a nice all-around game.

Just saw his line. 22, 7 and 5. After the Jazz drafted him I watched about 15 of his games from his soph season at Colorado, and that's the player I saw. We didn't see much of that all-around game in his limited time during the season and hadn't seen it in summer league. I hope he can continue to develop to the point where he can start to focus again on creating for teammates and rebounding from the wing.

[MarkGrace]

I think if Kanter started and played 32 mpg this year, he'd already put up at least 12 and 11, close to his p36 numbers as a rookie. He'd have some bad possessions and look out of place once in a while, but even as a young player with very little experience he already looked like an elite rebounder with solid low post defense. And even if his post game against NBA talent is limited, his counters and rebounding would be enough to get him some cheap shots and trips to the line.

I think so, too. I feel pretty comfortable in thinking that he'll be a double-double + above average post defender at some point. I also said that I have less of a feel for what he could become than the other guys, and that's because I'm not sure how much more than that he'll become. I do agree that his athleticism/movement will limit him some, but not to the point of becoming a Hoffa/Kwame Brown style bust. His play as a rookie didn't give me any reason to believe that would happen.

[Blueintheface]

SMR pushing MG's "ROOKIE" button notwithstanding, I think I understand his point to a degree. I'm a bit more confident we'll see Kanter's midrange game improve but I'm not sure his ceiling is as high offensively as we fans had anticipated on draft day. Having said that, his rebounding and post defense are better after just one year than I could have hoped after 3.

Also, I guess I am prophetic in saying I wish Kanter would gain 25 lbs as I posted that before MG linked his quote about Turkish food resulting in excessive weight gain.

[MarkGrace]

SMR pushing MG's "ROOKIE" button notwithstanding, I think I understand his point to a degree. I'm a bit more confident we'll see Kanter's midrange game improve but I'm not sure his ceiling is as high offensively as we fans had anticipated on draft day. Having said that, his rebounding and post defense are better after just one year than I could have hoped after 3.

But that's not what he's saying, nor is that what I'm ranting about. I already said I can see some of those things mentioned being limiting factors, but SMR invoked the name Hoffa, clearly implying bust. And I've seen similar worries elsewhere, in addition to comparisons to other players that were major flops (like Kwame). That's what I don't understand. Given that he's already had one productive season in the NBA despite some peculiar circumstances, this whole bust talk seems kind of silly to me. Maybe his rookie year will be his best year and it will be a straight downward trajectory from there (it's happened to other players), but given his background and age I'm not terribly concerned about that.