"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[LiveCoug]

The Jazz are really stupid.

[HBCoug]

Wow, did Deron just choke that game away? Still 15 seconds left...

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I just think as long as the Clips, Kings or Wolves don't make the playoffs the Jazz can go deep.

[scottie]

Memo is 4 for 28 shooting treys this season in the 4th qtr.

[MarkGrace]

Deron has really had a rough stretch lately. He's been 33% or under from the floor in 4 of his last 6 games.

I can't remember a time in his career when he's struggled like this.

[smokymountainrain]

For anybody who can or would like to do a bit of research...

How often in say, the past 25 years, has a contender - I'll define a contender as a top 4 team in the conference at the AS break - traded away a starting player only to get nothing, for that season, in return?

I was watching the Jazz lose to the lowly Clippers last night almost with a smile on my face, thinking - when you make trades like the Jazz made, I'm not sure you deserve to win basketball games. There is just something inherently wrong with doing what they did.

[MarkGrace]

For anybody who can or would like to do a bit of research...

How often in say, the past 25 years, has a contender - I'll define a contender as a top 4 team in the conference at the AS break - traded away a starting player only to get nothing, for that season, in return?

Seems like kind of arbitrary line to draw, and I'm not sure what the point of the exercise would be since, despite their place in the standings, the Jazz are not (and never were) a contender.

I was watching the Jazz lose to the lowly Clippers last night almost with a smile on my face, thinking - when you make trades like the Jazz made, I'm not sure you deserve to win basketball games. There is just something inherently wrong with doing what they did.

Brew would have arguably helped maybe against Sac and last night, but as a long-term move, I still don't see much wrong with what they did.

[MarkGrace]

Good news. Deron says his wrist should be better sometime this offseason. That seems like a good time.

[Blueintheface]

And meanwhile the Knicks have fallen to a tie for forth-worst record. Probably as far as they'll fall but it all but guarantees a top 7 pick. Hopefully with that pick Deron can find a new best friend.

[smokymountainrain]

Seems like kind of arbitrary line to draw, and I'm not sure what the point of the exercise would be since, despite their place in the standings, the Jazz are not (and never were) a contender.

The top four seeds get homecourt advantage in the first round. The Jazz were in third at the time so I thought I'd extend it at least one more to the teams that get homecourt. Arbritrary, sure, but it seems fair to me.

I agree that the Jazz weren't contenders, but if they feel that way as a third place team, they probably shouldn't even be playing the games. So whether you and I think they were or not, that can't be the way they, as an organization, approach the remainder of this season.

As far as Brewer goes individually, it's not him so much as the principle of the thing. What I'm getting at here is that I think it just might be unprecedented for a third place team to make such a trade this late in the season.

[Blueintheface]

What I'm getting at here is that I think it just might be unprecedented for a third place team to make such a trade this late in the season.

Starter or not, Brewer was not a significant piece of the puzzle for the Jazz, he just wasn't. He was rarely on the court in crunch time due to his inability to shoot the jumper or any semblance of a free throw, and he started the games simply to spark the Jazz and get to the hoop, and when that stopped it was bye-bye Ronnie. Now, it may be easy to track contenders that have simply traded away a player for nothing immediately in return but I'm guessing you'll find that the guy traded away was virtually of the same quality as Brewer.

[MarkGrace]

The top four seeds get homecourt advantage in the first round. The Jazz were in third at the time so I thought I'd extend it at least one more to the teams that get homecourt. Arbritrary, sure, but it seems fair to me.

So that seems like a fair definition of contender, then right below you agree that the Jazz aren't contenders?

I agree that the Jazz weren't contenders, but if they feel that way as a third place team, they probably shouldn't even be playing the games. So whether you and I think they were or not, that can't be the way they, as an organization, approach the remainder of this season.

Why not? If you know you don't have a legit shot, why not make a move for the future? How should a 3rd place team that is not a contender feel? I'm not sure I get what you're saying. If Brew was going to walk this summer for nothing since the Jazz weren't going to be able to match whatever offer he got, why not try to get something out of that? And even money considerations aside, I'm not convinced that re-signing Brew would have been the right move from a skill/fit perspective.

As far as Brewer goes individually, it's not him so much as the principle of the thing. What I'm getting at here is that I think it just might be unprecedented for a third place team to make such a trade this late in the season.

I think it depends on how you paint the scenario. Is "3rd place team trades starter" really an honest assessment of the situation? Who cares about 3rd place in the West -- all that means is that the Jazz maybe win one round instead of going out in the 1st. BFD.

The fact of the matter is that you have to look at both the Jazz and Brew more candidly. The Jazz found themselves at 3 thanks to an extremely fortuitous set of events, and they weren't going to maintain. At their very best they could be 4th in the West, but they are also very comparable to the teams seeded 5-8. As for Brew, he was a starter in name only. They traded him to a non-playoff team where he doesn't even have the chance to be a starter, and his role had diminished with the Jazz (thanks to the resurgent AK) to the point where he was no different than CJ, Korver or Matthews (which is to say basically a 20-24 minute role player). He was a starter by virtue of being the incumbent. That's about it.

So it's either 3rd team in West trades starting SG for nothing, or middling playoff team trades bench player for 1st round pick (and I know I've asked this before, but does anyone think Brewer was worth anything more than a 1st round pick even before the financial considerations?). If you ask me, it's the latter, and this type of scenario has plenty of precedent.

[smokymountainrain]

Starter or not, Brewer was not a significant piece of the puzzle for the Jazz, he just wasn't. He was rarely on the court in crunch time due to his inability to shoot the jumper or any semblance of a free throw, and he started the games simply to spark the Jazz and get to the hoop, and when that stopped it was bye-bye Ronnie. Now, it may be easy to track contenders that have simply traded away a player for nothing immediately in return but I'm guessing you'll find that the guy traded away was virtually of the same quality as Brewer.

Not significant in your opinion.

Apparently Jerry Sloan thought otherwise considering he was playing nearly 30 minutes a game and starting.

Jazz were 15-2 in the 17 games immediately preceding his trade. They are 4-3 since. Early returns support Jerry Sloan's idea that Brewer was indeed very much a significant part of the team. Small sample size, but it will be fun to see how this plays out as the season goes on.

Also, I think it's funny to read your criticisms that he couldn't shoot a FT or make a jumper, yet it looks to me like the Jazz could really use a guy who is solid defensively in man to man, who gets deflections and creates steals, runs the court and finishes and gets easy buckets in the half court offense.

[smokymountainrain]

Why not? If you know you don't have a legit shot, why not make a move for the future? How should a 3rd place team that is not a contender feel? I'm not sure I get what you're saying. If Brew was going to walk this summer for nothing since the Jazz weren't going to be able to match whatever offer he got, why not try to get something out of that? And even money considerations aside, I'm not convinced that re-signing Brew would have been the right move from a skill/fit perspective.

So you think that Greg Miller, Jerry Sloan and KOC don't think the Jazz have a chance to win the championship? If they honestly don't think their team has a chance to win it all, then you win. My argument is moot.

[MarkGrace]

Starter or not, Brewer was not a significant piece of the puzzle for the Jazz, he just wasn't. He was rarely on the court in crunch time due to his inability to shoot the jumper or any semblance of a free throw, and he started the games simply to spark the Jazz and get to the hoop, and when that stopped it was bye-bye Ronnie. Now, it may be easy to track contenders that have simply traded away a player for nothing immediately in return but I'm guessing you'll find that the guy traded away was virtually of the same quality as Brewer.

34% eFG% on jumpshots in his 4th year in the NBA, and he's a f@#%ing starting shooting guard. I don't know that in the history of basketball you could find a playoff team with a starting 2 guard carrying such an abysmal shooting stat with them. That's about the only thing related to the Brew scenario that is without precedent.