Back to School Night

[LA Ute]

In my AP English class I had the best teacher I ever experienced in my pre-college years. The class was loads of fun. I remember reading MacBeth as a class, and going to see the Roman Polanski film of that play, which had just come out. Ever since, that's been my favorite of the Bard's tragedies. We read The Importance of Being Earnest as a class, with different students being assigned the parts. (I was Algernon.) I wrote my longest paper ever, to that point, on Plato's Republic. I remember all those things so well, and could go on and on with other great experiences that teacher gave us.

My own kids read things like Fight Club and at least one Kurt Vonnegut novel (I forget which one) in their high school senior English classes. They never read a single Shakespeare play in high school. (Talk about cultural grounding!) Nothing wrong with the stuff they did read, but compared to what I experienced it's pretty lame. (Sorry, Vonnegut fans. But they can read that material in college.) I am not one who gets outraged about these things, but it does make me sad for today's students when I read stories like yours. I think they are missing out on a lot.

BTW, my kids so far have gone to a top high school, by all the statistical measures on test scores, college admissions, etc. Go figure.

[myboynoah]

Last night, Mme. PAC and I attended our 78th (and final!) Back to School Night (six kids times 13). Our youngest has the typical HS senior class load, but I was interested to see that his English class, which since my day has been called Senior Lit or some such, is now called: Literature and Social Justice. I listened to his young teacher’s fervent presentation about the objectives of the class which seem far more focused on the social justice part than on the literature part. While she spoke, I had an enjoyable time imagining myself surrounded by CUF’ers of all political stripes, with imagined reactions ranging from “What the hell is this crap?” to “This is a vital addition to a young person’s education, providing insight into the human condition and greater sensitivity to the repressed and underprivileged.” Over the years, I’ve trended slightly away from the former and toward the latter, but last night pushed me back a bit toward a simple “WTF?”, where F stands for “flip”, in case anyone is concerned for my soul.

Stop it already, you're making me cry.

I welcome you back with open arms. The prodigal son has returned. Kill a fatted calf and all that stuff.

[thesaint258]

What's the rest of the reading list like?

[il Padrino Ute]

Not only would I say "screw that", but I'd ask the teacher why she felt an English class was the proper place to be pushing her left-wing agenda.

Fortunately, we don't have that problem here. The faculty at Murray High School cares about educating the kids in the the Rs and making sure they fill all the requirements for graduation. If there are liberals trying to indoctrinate kids in the Murray School District, nobody knows about it.

And Lord of the Flies is a great book.

[Tick's wife]

Last night, Mme. PAC and I attended our 78th (and final!) Back to School Night (six kids times 13). Our youngest has the typical HS senior class load, but I was interested to see that his English class, which since my day has been called Senior Lit or some such, is now called: Literature and Social Justice. I listened to his young teacher’s fervent presentation about the objectives of the class which seem far more focused on the social justice part than on the literature part. While she spoke, I had an enjoyable time imagining myself surrounded by CUF’ers of all political stripes, with imagined reactions ranging from “What the hell is this crap?” to “This is a vital addition to a young person’s education, providing insight into the human condition and greater sensitivity to the repressed and underprivileged.” Over the years, I’ve trended slightly away from the former and toward the latter, but last night pushed me back a bit toward a simple “WTF?”, where F stands for “flip”, in case anyone is concerned for my soul.

A large sign at the front of the room showed a rainbow of multicolored silhouettes of people with the proud announcement “We are all equal!” Uh, no, we’re not. And while promoting equal opportunity and eliminating societal and governmental roadblocks to such opportunity is vital, the essence of liberty is the freedom to be unequal, and this class seems like it might ignore that.

The reading list includes some touchy feely readings and I intend to follow along. Fortunately, the first book is an exception to the squishy stuff, and I’m looking forward to reading again, and discussing with the boy, Lord of the Flies.

It’s interesting to note the changes that have taken place in the English curricula since we started going to BTSNs 28 years ago. I’m not sure all of them have been positive. I’m interested in your reactions to this progressive development in the study of literature. I’ll put Robin down for a Yes!, and IPU and ‘71 down for a Screw That!, but I’m less certain after that.

I can't believe you have gone to every BTSN...it's the same thing every year and they send all the paperwork home the next day, if you don't go. Even teachers don't care for this night. I don't go anymore, unless it's my school and I HAVE to be there for no one to show up (special ed. parents generally don't show up)....If I brib them with food, they come. I will go to Open house because it is more relaxed and there is usually a carnival for the neighborhood but don't care for BTSN.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I can't believe you have gone to every BTSN...

In truth, I haven't, although I think I hit around 80%. But the missus, the Lou Gehrig of doting mothers, closed out her career with a perfect record. We like meeting each teacher as it gives a somewhat better feel for things as we discuss things with each kid over the course of the year. Until we moved to Pleasanton last year, our kids attended schools that were heavily Asian and the parents there were VERY into their children's education so perfect attendance was the norm. Pleasanton seems pretty dedicated as well.

[wuapinmon]

In response to many posts in this thread, I'll ask, many of the great books of our time are about social injustice: Sinclair's The Jungle, Norris' The Octopus, Hardy's Tess of the d'Urbevilles, García Márquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude....just to name a few; where's the harm in unifying a curriculum into a solid topic, an eternal golden braid, as it were, of themes about social injustice? Is it really a teacher pushing their left-wing agenda on the class, or does confronting kids with social problems allow them to look awry at things they see in life? Really, where's the harm?

LA Ute,

I don't think kids should read Shakespeare in high school, save, maybe, Romeo and Juliet. They haven't lived enough to get the stuff, and their age and indolence make them unreceptive to Jamesian English.

[cowboy]

I don't think kids should read Shakespeare in high school, save, maybe, Romeo and Juliet. They haven't lived enough to get the stuff, and their age and indolence make them unreceptive to Jamesian English.

My mother taught English Lit for 30 years, and it included Hamlet, R&J, and Macbeth. She'd disagree with you.

[wuapinmon]

My mother taught English Lit for 30 years, and it included Hamlet, R&J, and Macbeth. She'd disagree with you.

Given the years of experience she has, I respect her opinion. I think the changing demographics and mandatory curricula being forced on the kids from a young age leave many of them ill-prepared for reading Shakespeare beyond anything more than a superficial level. Macbeth works in high school.....Hamlet........the depths of human anguish at 16....I don't see it happening anymore. I feel that the vast majority of these kids just CLIFFNote the whole thing and scour the internet looking for clever insights that they can regurgitate.

[LA Ute]

In response to many posts in this thread, I'll ask, many of the great books of our time are about social injustice: Sinclair's The Jungle, Norris' The Octopus, Hardy's Tess of the d'Urbevilles, García Márquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude....just to name a few; where's the harm in unifying a curriculum into a solid topic, an eternal golden braid, as it were, of themes about social injustice? Is it really a teacher pushing their left-wing agenda on the class, or does confronting kids with social problems allow them to look awry at things they see in life? Really, where's the harm?

LA Ute,

I don't think kids should read Shakespeare in high school, save, maybe, Romeo and Juliet. They haven't lived enough to get the stuff, and their age and indolence make them unreceptive to Jamesian English.

Thanks, wuap. I'm no curriculum expert, I just know what literature made a mark on me. You make an interesting point about Shakespeare. Keep in mind, my big Shakespeare experience was in an AP class, which is supposed to be college-level. (I'd add Julius Caesar to your list, BTW.) I do think they should read the great books in high school - many of them are very accessible, and I think we should be very careful about "dumbing down" the curriculum. In my two sons' cases, their teachers were very young recent Berkeley grads who disdained the great books. So we got Fight Club and Vonnegut instead.

There's lots of room for the newer stuff - in that same high school class where I got Shakespeare and Plato, I also got Richard Brautigan (Trout Fishing in America, which was not about catching fish), Paul Zindel (My Darling, My Hamburger; I Never Loved Your Mind), and other more avant-garde authors.-

The nation will survive. I'm mainly harrumphing.

[Jarid in Cedar]

We read Romeo & Juliet in 8th, Hamlet in 9th, Julius Caesar in 10th, and Mid-summer's Nights dream, Taming of the Shrew, and Othello in 11th. I don't know if the cirriculum is the same though.

[creekster]

I have mixed feelings about this thread. I very much think the classics (dead white guys, as wuap says it) are undersold in schools these days. I think this is a mistake. When I was in HS I too studied shakespeare and other classics that are not studied as often these days.

At the same time, my AP teacher once took me into the bookstorage room of my high school and told me that there was a book he could not teach from because it was no longer allowed by the local small town school board but they had 45 copies and he showed it to me on the shelf. He then said he was leaving the room and that he would not count if there were only 44 copies when i left after him. So I took the book and read it. The book was Slaughterhouse Five and it changed my life in some ways. I love Vonnegut and think that he should be taught in high school too. SO I guess they need to do it all. Some help I am.

[Flystripper]

I found it curious as well. I read it as a freshman, but apparently Mini-me has never read it, and I think it's worth reading so better late than never. I haven't read it since 1967 and I'm looking forward to doing it again.

was freshman year for me too.

[Art Vandelay]

Was I the only one whose goal in HS was to do as little as possible. I loved reading in elementary school and probably through 6th or 7th grade. However, 90% of my reading in HS came from books like this: After my mission I started to read for fun again, when I finally finished school I developed into an avid reader.

In HS the only 2 things I cared about was playing ball and girls so I will be happy if they don't follow their father's example and actually read a book during HS. Hopefully, their teachers will have the wisdom to assign "The Count of Monte Cristo" or "Anna Karenina" instead of the "Twilight" series.

[Levin]

Given the years of experience she has, I respect her opinion. I think the changing demographics and mandatory curricula being forced on the kids from a young age leave many of them ill-prepared for reading Shakespeare beyond anything more than a superficial level. Macbeth works in high school.....Hamlet........the depths of human anguish at 16....I don't see it happening anymore. I feel that the vast majority of these kids just CLIFFNote the whole thing and scour the internet looking for clever insights that they can regurgitate.

This is sad commentary coming from a college professor.

I'm always amazed by the degree to which adults discount the emotional and metaphysical lives of preteens and teens. Reading biographies of great men and women: you realize they all read engaging and mature books when they were young.

Will teenagers get all of the human understanding in Hamlet? Do you? They will get some; and those pieces will be invaluable in forming and creating a self-examined life, of seeing some things as they really are; of thinking about the challenges, perplexities, and joys of being human.

Final note: how do we expect our young to develop these sensitivities but to trust them with the tools to do so -- art, literature, music? They'll recognize their own experiences, feelings, thoughts articulated in these works of art, and they'll understand their life much better; and have a greater ability to process what they are feeling and going through in the future. And they'll marvel how someone could express what they feel and think in similar situations. They'll feel connected to the generations past, and to themselves.