Glenn Beck in Hot Water

[DU Ute]

Your comparison might be more compelling if you add at least one additional hypothetical point: You need to provide that the white president's forbears suffered hundreds of years of slavery, segregation, genocide, discrimination and injustice at the hands of an exclusively black government and society.

Exactly.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I think the point is that he made some disparaging comments (I guess) about a group of people that are probably 99% white. You said (was it you?) that he never mentioned white people. You're right, he spoke about a region to be precise, but practically the only people that live in that region are white.

On the other hand, he might have been deriding rural people v. city-dwellers, or uneducated v. educated. But when you hear him talking about people in rural Pennsylvania sticking to their guns and religion, do you honestly picture a vast array of different cultures? Or do you see a white guy in a truck with a shot gun?

I honestly saw this as his comparision group. I saw the comments from an elitist. I didn't read any racial overtones, elitist yes.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I simply do not care. I refuse to believe that America's racist history is a major factor in deciding what kind of person one can become.

You can simply not care because:

1. You haven't experienced it
2. It doesn't support your viewpoint.

[JohnnyLingo]

I honestly saw this as his comparision group. I saw the comments from an elitist. I didn't read any racial overtones, elitist yes.

That's your prerogative. What about his "typical white person" comment? Any racial overtones there?

You can simply not care because:

1. You haven't experienced it
2. It doesn't support your viewpoint.

Thanks for the free psychoanalysis. I just prefer to believe that we don't need to be controlled by the past. Abused kids don't need to grow up to be abusers.

And we're at the point where black children being born are faaaaar removed from slavery and the civil rights struggles of the 60's. Can you honestly argue that a black child born today is at a disadvantage because of what Martin Luther King, Jr. fought against? Because of slavery? Do other nations have such a guilt trip about their own racist past? America seems unique in that regard.

[falafel]

I honestly saw this as his comparision group. I saw the comments from an elitist. I didn't read any racial overtones, elitist yes.

Great. I agree that it is an acceptable alternate explanation.

[Pheidippides]

You can simply not care because:

1. You haven't experienced it
2. It doesn't support your viewpoint.

3. He hasn't lived anywhere where race is a genuine issue.

He should go to poor neighborhoods across the South, or Harlem in NYC, or any number of other places across the country, and try to peddle that believe. I will be taking bets on whether or not he comes out alive.

[wuapinmon]

I simply do not care. I refuse to believe that America's racist history is a major factor in deciding what kind of person one can become.

Your refusal to believe is irrelevant. You have been given the long end of the stick. While I agree in a Ben-Folds-Rockin'-the-Suburbs-type way, I'm also not stupid enough to believe or refuse to believe that it doesn't matter. It IS a major factor. History, psychology, economics, and common sense show us the chaos created by colonialism. We are post-colonial here and the wishful thinking of ignoring the past by focusing on some Algernon-Sydney-Sullivan-type solution for every social or financial ill of the individual is foolish.

[JohnnyLingo]

3. He hasn't lived anywhere where race is a genuine issue.

He should go to poor neighborhoods across the South, or Harlem in NYC, or any number of other places across the country, and try to peddle that believe. I will be taking bets on whether or not he comes out alive.

I'll give it a shot. Road trip next week.

[Pheidippides]

I'll give it a shot. Road trip next week.

Live. Not visit.

You are doing very little to prove you are not an embryonic nikuman, by the way. I remember making the precise arguments you have been making in this thread. It was early fall, 2001, as chance would have it.

Then I moved to Harlem.

The above should bring more hope to everybody involved than any plagiarized words of Dr. King.

[RobinFinderson]

Because he wasn't talking about them.

Obama was speaking generally about communities that had lost an industrial employment base and which never fully economically recovered. He used Penn towns as specific example, but also made clear he was talking about a problem that existed throughout much of the Midwest. When you consider the big picture of what he was talking about, communities that never recovered from the loss of an industrial base, South Central fits that description to a T. And sure enough, when you look at South Central, you find an inordinate number of people clinging to guns and religion.

I don't know what that necessarily means regarding this conversation, but I think it is an interesting observation.

[JohnnyLingo]

Live. Not visit.

I was referring to the second part of your post.

Then I moved to Harlem.

So what did you see that convinced you that a kid born in 1990 is handicapped because of what happened in 1962?

The above should bring more hope to everybody involved than any plagiarized words of Dr. King.

Give me a break. I didn't plagiarize anything. The words are King's. Everyone knows that. Attribution therefore unnecessary.

[Jarid in Cedar]

That's your prerogative. What about his "typical white person" comment? Any racial overtones there?
.

I read it as one of the stupidest, naive comments he made during the campaign. I fit into the "typical white person" crowd given my limited exposure to racial differences and different cultures. If you want to find offense in the comment, then you would fit in well with Rev. Jesse and Rev. Al

Thanks for the free psychoanalysis. I just prefer to believe that we don't need to be controlled by the past. Abused kids don't need to grow up to be abusers.

.

As much as that sounds nice, the real world speaks otherwise. The odds of an abused becoming an abuser is greater than 70% higher. We are all defined by our past as much as we like to think that we are not. As a parent, how many times do you say the exact same thing your parents said to you when dealing with discipline or child rearing.

[JohnnyLingo]

As much as that sounds nice, the real world speaks otherwise. The odds of an abused becoming an abuser is greater than 70% higher. We are all defined by our past as much as we like to think that we are not. As a parent, how many times do you say the exact same thing your parents said to you when dealing with discipline or child rearing.

Doesn't excuse it. If you beat your kid, you can't defend yourself by saying "But I was beaten!"

It's reality, but it's not unavoidable.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Doesn't excuse it. If you beat your kid, you can't defend yourself by saying "But I was beaten!"

It's reality, but it's not unavoidable.

I didn't say it was a defense, but a reality.

[Pheidippides]

I was referring to the second part of your post.



So what did you see that convinced you that a kid born in 1990 is handicapped because of what happened in 1962?



Give me a break. I didn't plagiarize anything. The words are King's. Everyone knows that. Attribution therefore unnecessary.

Answers, in order: Good luck either way, you can't possibly be that naive (actually, you can, and why are you only looking back to 1962 instead of 1692)?, are you really concerned that I think you're adopting Dr. King's ideas as your own?

Or, to sum it all up, let's take your view as the "right" one (to the extent such a thing exists). Good luck changing the view of the millions of black people whose reality revolves around race being a limitation. Wuap already pointed this out, but I fear that he did it in too subtle a way for purposes of his audience. JIC was a little more direct, if on a slightly different point.

I am now going to call my wife and have a refreshing discussion on the naive rubes we used to be and how funny it is now in retrospect.