Glenn Beck in Hot Water

[JohnnyLingo]

Case in point: Woot acknowledges that documentaries have bias.

You turn around and attempt to characterize 'bias' as misleading and containing 'false information.' But that isn't what bias means. So all of a sudden the debate is about correcting an ignorant reading of Woot's point of view. Someone can niggle away the day debating whether bias=false information, but for most people that isn't fun.

Wrong. Here is what he said:

Part of the problem is that few people watch many documentaries so they don't understand that there generally is a blatant agenda.

Blatant agenda is far stronger than bias. Everyone has bias, and it creeps into everything we say, write, produce, whatever. Blatant agendas are much different... that means you're actively employing your bias to push your opinions onto someone else.

Do you see why I like to get specific as to what people are saying?

[RobinFinderson]

Wrong. Here is what he said:



Blatant agenda is far stronger than bias. Everyone has bias, and it creeps into everything we say, write, produce, whatever. Blatant agendas are much different... that means you're actively employing your bias to push your opinions onto someone else.

Do you see why I like to get specific as to what people are saying?

Lingo, you are doing it again! You are narrowing in on a quibble over definitions, all the while failing to realize that you lose this point even under your own biased definitions.

You characterized woot's POV as believing Moore's movie was 'misleading' and full of 'false information.'

What woot said generally about all documentaries (read the quote you gave me above. It doesn't limit the scope to Moore) is that they typically have a 'blatant agenda.' When you ignorantly equated' blatant agenda' with 'misleading' and 'false information' (it doesn't equate, even in your own biased definition of 'pushing' opinions on others), woot corrected you:

My position is that documentaries tend to be biased. If you'd stopped there, I would have agreed with you.

The problem here is that terms like 'bias' and 'agenda' (even blatant ones), have pretty clear meanings. Then you pull this crap where you attempt to redefine other people's terms so that they seem to agree with you, when they clearly do not agree with you. You win neither friends nor arguments that way. It is disrespectful to willfully mis-characterize other people's views, and doing so turns the debate into a long, drawn out, painful correction-fest. Not fun.

If you can't figure out how to make interacting with you fun, people will stop interacting with you.

[JohnnyLingo]

You characterized woot's POV as believing Moore's movie was 'misleading' and full of 'false information.'

What woot said generally about all documentaries (read the quote you gave me above. It doesn't limit the scope to Moore) is that they typically have a 'blatant agenda.' When you ignorantly equated' blatant agenda' with 'misleading' and 'false information' (it doesn't equate, even in your own biased definition of 'pushing' opinions on others),

You are correct. The terms do not exactly equate. That said, I've put forth some pretty damning information showing Moore's lies that have not been addressed yet.

The problem here is that terms like 'bias' and 'agenda' (even blatant ones), have pretty clear meanings. Then you pull this crap where you attempt to redefine other people's terms so that they seem to agree with you, when they clearly do not agree with you.

Well, I wasn't trying to make it look like woot agreed with me, but it turned out I mischaracterized his argument all the same. He still has yet to fully explain his position on the issue.

You win neither friends nor arguments that way.

You think I'm trying to win arguments? Far from it. I'm here to get differing views on topics and see how robust my own are. K-Dog gave me an excellent education on his take on the federal deficit. I probably annoyed him to death with my ignorance and plethora of clarifying questions, but in the end, I now know more than I did.

If you can't figure out how to make interacting with you fun, people will stop interacting with you.

I doubt it. People enjoy making me look dumb, which is admittedly not all that hard.