War with Iran - DEFCON 3

[dabrockster]

Not hypocrisy in the least. Given his history, Trump is not entitled to a presumption of regularity. It's up to him (or you, if you want to defend him) to prove the purpose behind any action is a valid one, instead of the typical corrupt BS.



Iran claims elementary schools were hit today. Should we believe them? Don't know. But the claim has been widely reported.

Again: what is the pro-bombing argument? The strongest, most air-tight case you, or anyone in this administration or otherwise can dream up.

The answer is NO. I would never be one to believe anything from Iranian sponsored news.

[dabrockster]

Even if bombing Iran is justified (either to destroy the previously obliterated nuclear capabilities that somehow got up and running months later, so much so that they are 'days away' from building a bomb, or for regime change), how is the current situation anywhere close to operating within globally accepted norms? If it's such a righteous cause, how come Trump et al are hell bent on executing it in a way that guarantees widespread condemnation and zero cooperation other than Israel and rogue Middle East states that have their own reasons to want to topple Iran? It bears repeating, at least the rest of the world tried to do the Iraq War right, by convincing governments and people that it was just.

Is this war as just as most of the world thought the Iraq war was? What's the end game, since apparently the US and Israel are incapable of keeping Iran from being 'days away' (repeat, ad infinitum) from a nuclear weapon? If it's regime change, good luck on having any other outcome from the western world that lost its interest with Iraq after about 10 years.

Rogue nations? WTF are you talking about? That alone demonstrates you inability to look at this through unbiased lenses.

for me it is simple. Freedom for the people. That is the end game. The Iranian people now have the opportunity to take their country back and jr seems there has been much better planning on this which the Iranian Resistance Council and the groups are well established to take back their country.

Is that so difficult to see? The God given right to freedom.

[dabrockster]

ALL OF IRAN IS CELEBRATING THE DEATH OF THE OPPRESSOR KHAMENEI.

LONG LIVE IRAN.

LONG LIVE THE SHAH.

https://x.com/niohberg/status/202783...wgQeKTws5vNdEg

Reports say Ayatollah Khamenei was killed during Trump’s operation in Iran.

Israeli officials claim his body was found in the rubble and that Netanyahu has seen video of it.

Waiting on U.S. confirmation.

https://x.com/mahurrohitash/status/2027847588427534486?s=46&t=kxf1Jv1zwgQeKTws5vNdEg

Iranians celebrated in the streets following news of Khamenei’s death.

https://x.com/osint613/status/202784...wgQeKTws5vNdEg

[Jeff Lebowski]

Sounds like the timing here was based on intel that the Khamenei and other top leaders were going to gather in one spot this morning. I am guessing someone on the inside sold him out. Or the Mossad strikes again.

Now what happens?

[Bo Diddley]

Wow Khamenei is dead. This seems like a really big deal. I would be optimistic if not for all the history we have with this kind of thing not working out the way we'd hoped.

[Pelado]

Sounds like the timing here was based on intel that the Khamenei and other top leaders were going to gather in one spot this morning. I am guessing someone on the inside sold him out. Or the Mossad strikes again.

Now what happens?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Embedded Tweet

[frank ryan]

Sounds like the timing here was based on intel that the Khamenei and other top leaders were going to gather in one spot this morning. I am guessing someone on the inside sold him out. Or the Mossad strikes again.

Now what happens?

I'd guess a Mossad source.

[LVAllen]

Rogue nations? WTF are you talking about? That alone demonstrates you inability to look at this through unbiased lenses.

for me it is simple. Freedom for the people. That is the end game. The Iranian people now have the opportunity to take their country back and jr seems there has been much better planning on this which the Iranian Resistance Council and the groups are well established to take back their country.

Is that so difficult to see? The God given right to freedom.

Great. Freedom.

Why do we care about Iranian people's freedom when we don't care about freedom anywhere else in the world, and have actively ignored pleas and withheld aid?

[frank ryan]

Great. Freedom.

Why do we care about Iranian people's freedom when we don't care about freedom anywhere else in the world, and have actively ignored pleas and withheld aid?

We wouldn't welcome into the country with Miller trying to make America more demographically white. MAGA didn't care about Venezuela liberation. They wanted the oil

[frank ryan]

It's way too early to be confident the long term success and cost of this one.
I'd love to be wrong on this one

[chrisrenrut]

With Trump and MAGA, the ends always justify the means.

When we invaded Iraq, Bush had senate and UN Security Council approval. Of course, they could claim WMD’s back then without too much questioning.

Trump knows he wouldn’t get that support at home or abroad (except for Israel). And it’s hard to claim WMD’s when 8 months ago you planned you obliterated ther nuclear capabilities.

I would say the real motives here are:
1- Israel’s request/demand. Didn’t hurt that the Mossad probably has compromising about Trump and others.
2- Distract from Epstein files. That hasn’t been going well for Trump, et al lately
3- Iranian unrest/dissent. Trump doesn’t really care, but it is a convenient and timely reason right now
4- Nuclear capabilities. Again, hard to claim this with Operation Midnight Hammer just 8 months ago. Plus Trump having torn up the prior treat that Obama had in place.

[Northwestcoug]

Rogue nations? WTF are you talking about? That alone demonstrates you inability to look at this through unbiased lenses.

for me it is simple. Freedom for the people. That is the end game. The Iranian people now have the opportunity to take their country back and jr seems there has been much better planning on this which the Iranian Resistance Council and the groups are well established to take back their country.

Is that so difficult to see? The God given right to freedom.

Fine, rogue state, singular. Saudi Arabia, chock full of human rights abuses. I don't know enough about the other Middle East countries to judge their rogueness so I retract my original plural.

Freedom is the end game: there isn't a much more worthy sentiment, I agree with you there. But I am clear-eyed enough to realize that there is not enough will in the US, much less other involved countries, to make a significantly better Iranian government a reality. Surely you can realize that there is no recent track record of importing enduring freedom by external violence.

No one is shedding a tear about Khameni's death. The question is if it was worth trampling over the constitution and the innocent lives lost. If it results in a less bad Iran that doesn't threaten terrorism or nuclear war, in the cold calculus of nation building that's probably acceptable. But these actions tend to have lasting consequences, both here and abroad. And if we're back at square one with just delaying the 'days away from a nuclear bomb' game that we've been playing for years now, then it will most definitely not have been worth it.

[frank ryan]

Fine, rogue state, singular. Saudi Arabia, chock full of human rights abuses. I don't know enough about the other Middle East countries to judge their rogueness so I retract my original plural.

Freedom is the end game: there isn't a much more worthy sentiment, I agree with you there. But I am clear-eyed enough to realize that there is not enough will in the US, much less other involved countries, to make a significantly better Iranian government a reality. Surely you can realize that there is no recent track record of importing enduring freedom by external violence.

No one is shedding a tear about Khameni's death. The question is if it was worth trampling over the constitution and the innocent lives lost. If it results in a less bad Iran that doesn't threaten terrorism or nuclear war, in the cold calculus of nation building that's probably acceptable. But these actions tend to have lasting consequences, both here and abroad. And if we're back at square one with just delaying the 'days away from a nuclear bomb' game that we've been playing for years now, then it will most definitely not have been worth it.

UAE isn't doing great either. They are perpetuating Sudan's horrific civil war

[dabrockster]

Great. Freedom.

Why do we care about Iranian people's freedom when we don't care about freedom anywhere else in the world, and have actively ignored pleas and withheld aid?

Because lefties like you and Frank would have too much to bitch about. Gotta temper this a little..