Violence by White Supremicists on the rise

[BlueK]

He clearly was sympathetic towards those views, but the attack itself was because he was pissed of about what happened in Waco and Ruby Ridge.

And Ruby Ridge was about a guy who belonged to the Aryan Nations who was pretty public about his racist views. In McVeigh's case his act of terrorism mimicked an event from the Turner Diaries, which overtly ties racist views with war against the federal government. Every individual act is going to be unique in some way, but if you were classifying terrorist acts into categories, I think there is probably enough there to classify OKC into the white nationalist/neo-fascist area.

"The Weavers subscribed to racist Christian Identity beliefs, which hold that white people are the lost tribe of Israel, black people are subhuman, and Jews are satanic.[36] Vicki Weaver developed a set of beliefs following Old Covenant Laws, and the family referred to God as, "Yahweh." Because Weaver considered a woman having a child to be unclean, she gave birth to her fourth child in a shed behind the family's cabin on Ruby Ridge. After charges were pressed against her husband, Vicki Weaver wrote to U.S. Attorney Maurice O. Ellsworth, addressing him as "Servant of the Queen of Babylon" and writing, "The stink of your lawless government has reached Heaven, the abode of Yahweh our Yashua," and, "Whether we live or whether we die, we will not bow to your evil commandments."[37]

On three or four occasions, the Weavers attended Aryan Nations meetings up at Hayden Lake, a compound for government resisters and for white separatists and supremacists.[38][39] Weaver testified about his racial beliefs before a Senate subcommittee in 1995, saying, “I’m not a hateful racist as most people understand it. But I believe in the separation of races. We wanted to be separated from the rest of the world, to live in a remote area, to give our children a good place to grow up.”[40][41]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver

[BlueK]

moving the goal posts again.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I'm responding in kind to Wapiti's sarcasm. But he doesn't get the eyeroll.

[Bo Diddley]

He clearly was sympathetic towards those views, but the attack itself was because he was pissed of about what happened in Waco and Ruby Ridge.

It's the same people, and they have shown a propensity for violence.

[BlueK]

It's the same people, and they have shown a propensity for violence.

Exactly. Individuals may emphasize different aspects of their "doctrine," but it's the same circle of nutjobs subscribing to a similar world view.

[frank ryan]

The act itself was an attack on the federal government, but McVeigh and Nichols both ran in the same circles with those types. McVeigh for a while went to gun shows selling copies of his favorite book, The Turner Diaries, which is a favorite of white supremacists and is overtly racist and antisemitic, by presenting whites as victims and promoting the idea of race wars. So you might be able to infer from that that he was at the very least sympathetic to those views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries

Tim McVeigh was a white supremacist. That's not in question. He lived here for awhile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim_City,_Oklahoma

[Uncle Ted]

Tim McVeigh was a white supremacist. That's not in question. He lived here for awhile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim_City,_Oklahoma

McVeigh and his truck bomb were like 25 years ago... That whole thing was really bad. Did violence by white supremacists peek in 1995 and now its on the fall?

[BlueK]

McVeigh and his truck bomb were like 25 years ago... That whole thing was really bad. Did violence by white supremacists peek in 1995 and now its on the fall?

No, we're talking about it because someone else asked whether OKC was a white supremacist attack or not in the context of the dept of homeland security starting to keep track of white supremacist violence.

But I have never quite understood the apparent hesitation among some conservatives to see a connection between white supremacists and violence.

[Uncle Ted]

No, we're talking about it because someone else asked whether OKC was a white supremacist attack or not in the context of the dept of homeland security starting to keep track of white supremacist violence.

So OKC wasn't a white supremacist attack because homeland security hadn't starting to keep track of white supremacist violence yet?

[BlueK]

So OKC wasn't a white supremacist attack because homeland security hadn't starting to keep track of white supremacist violence yet?

no one is saying that.

someone commented on dhs now keeping track of white supremacist terrorism.

then someone else made a comment about the OKC attack and it was questioned whether that was white supremacist in nature.

Then you just asked why we're talking about it if it was 25 years ago.

[Bo Diddley]

DHS has been looking at white supremacists whether or not they were formally added to some list.

[wapiti]

DHS has been looking at white supremacists whether or not they were formally added to some list.

Thank goodness President Trump finally got them formally added. Previous presidents just haven't taken the threat seriously enough.

[Uncle Ted]

no one is saying that.

someone commented on dhs now keeping track of white supremacist terrorism.

then someone else made a comment about the OKC attack and it was questioned whether that was white supremacist in nature.

Then you just asked why we're talking about it if it was 25 years ago.

So back to my original question: Did white supremacist violence peak in 1995 (with McVeigh and his OKC bombing)? Frank said that McVeigh and his buddy were white supremacists. Clearly the bombing was a lot of violence. I don't think there has been violence of that degree since then. Therefore, it seems white supremacist violence is on the fall from its peak in 1995, right? Or are we talking about the quantity and not the quality of the violence? Like when those kids run around with masks covering their faces setting trashcans on fire... that counts as one unit of violence just like the OKC bombing counts as one unit of violence. I am just wondering how this white supremacist violence is being measured.

[Bo Diddley]

So back to my original question: Did white supremacist violence peak in 1995 (with McVeigh and his OKC bombing)? Frank said that McVeigh and his buddy were white supremacists. Clearly the bombing was a lot of violence. I don't think there has been violence of that degree since then. Therefore, it seems white supremacist violence is on the fall from its peak in 1995, right? Or are we talking about the quantity and not the quality of the violence? Like when those kids run around with masks covering their faces setting trashcans on fire... that counts as one unit of violence just like the OKC bombing counts as one unit of violence. I am just wondering how this white supremacist violence is being measured.

Yes, just as Islamic Extremist attacks peaked in the US in 2001.

[Uncle Ted]

Yes, just as Islamic Extremist attacks peaked in the US in 2001.

Hmm... were those guys considered white supremacists? Frank, can we get a ruling?

[BlueK]

I am just wondering how this white supremacist violence is being measured.

You're not "wondering" anything. I'm pretty sure you're doing this:

I have never quite understood the apparent hesitation among some conservatives to see a connection between white supremacists and violence.