Violence by White Supremicists on the rise

[SoCalCoug]

That was my question, actually.

Sorry. You're correct.

[swampfrog]

I think we're in agreement here, I specifically said that "It implies disagreement with a sense of disdain for a position as unjustifiable by a rational person." I was only pointing out that considering the breadth of possible ad hominems, this is pretty mild--so I consider it civil--though still not useful in furthering discourse. I was using a little tongue-in-cheek with the reference to virtue signaling, because the phrase "weird hill to choose to die on" is the epitome of a virtue signal. When unpacked, it implies that the opposing position is indefensible, that it is surrounded by imminent defeat, and is not rational. It declares judgement of good/virtuous opinion to solely exist on one side and signals to the reader how they should react.

This Twitter thread and linked articles cover more about the topic of signalling that I find interesting. I think as humans we're very unaware of the amount of unconscious signalling we do.

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[BlueK]

This Twitter thread and linked articles cover more about the topic of signalling that I find interesting. I think as humans we're very unaware of the amount of unconscious signalling we do.

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Good article. Unfortunately this kind of behavior from the arrogant rich is one of the things that leads to members of the white working class falling for a charlatan like Trump.

[swampfrog]

Good article. Unfortunately this kind of behavior from the arrogant rich is one of the things that leads to members of the white working class falling for a charlatan like Trump.

Yes, this is a class/status issue. The rich and powerful can afford to peddle ideas that primarily affect lower class citizens. This quote describes Trump for me:

For the whole modern world is absolutely based on the assumption, not that the rich are necessary (which is tenable), but that the rich are trustworthy, which (for a Christian) is not tenable. You will hear everlastingly, in all discussions about newspapers, companies, aristocracies, or party politics, this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man. The whole case for Christianity is that a man who is dependent upon the luxuries of this life is a corrupt man, spiritually corrupt, politically corrupt, financially corrupt. There is one thing that Christ and all the Christian saints have said with a sort of savage monotony. They have said simply that to be rich is to be in peculiar danger of moral wreck. --G.K. Chesterton

I think the same thing works at many levels. People can believe they are intellectually rich and will signal to others their status by professing adherence to certain very complex dogmas. Reason and logic are often subservient. Since the complexity is so high, it takes high cognition and time to master it all. Being able to navigate a discussion on the topic signals position in the intellectual hierarchy. Common in religions also.

[BigPiney]

https://splinternews.com/leaked-emai...tra-1837681245

[swampfrog]

Another good article on the pros and cons of virtue signalling from an evolutionary psychologist. Including how virtue signalling is related to white supremacy:

Yet, virtue signaling can also be the worst of human instincts. It drives most of partisan politics, especially on social media. It drives the demands to censor, fire, cancel and ostracize people who express the wrong opinions. It drives moral panics about satanic ritual abuse, “rape culture” and “porn addiction.” It drives white nationalists to run over protesters. It drives antifa to beat up journalists.

Lots of other interesting bits.

We are humans, and humans love to show off our moral virtues, ethical principles, religious convictions, political attitudes and lifestyle choices to other humans. We have virtue signaled ever since prehistoric big-game hunters shared meat with the hungry folks in their clan, or cared for kids who weren’t their own. Our descendants will continue to virtue signal to each other in Mars colonies, and on spaceships heading for other star systems. As humans colonize the galaxy, virtue signaling will colonize the galaxy.

There’s virtue signaling, and then there’s virtue signaling. This book is about both kinds.

On the one hand, there’s what economists call “cheap talk”: signals that are cheap, quick and easy to fake, and that aren’t accurate cues of underlying traits or values. When partisans on social media talk about political virtue signaling by the other side, they’re usually referring to this sort of cheap talk. Virtue signaling as cheap talk includes bumper stickers, yard signs, social media posts and dating app profiles. The main pressure that keeps cheap talk honest is social: the costs of stigma and ostracism by people who don’t agree with your signal. Wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat doesn’t cost much money, but it can cost you friendships.


On the other hand, there’s virtue signaling that’s costly, long-term, and hard to fake, and that can serve as a reliable indicator of underlying traits and values. This can include volunteering for months on political campaigns, making large, verifiable donations to causes, or giving up a lucrative medical practice to work for Doctors Without Borders in Haiti or New Guinea. The key to reliable virtue signals is that you simply couldn’t stand to exhibit them, over the long term, if you didn’t genuinely care about the cause.

So, my love/hate relationship with virtue signaling has continued for thirty years. Virtue signaling includes the best of human instincts, and the worst of human instincts.

The best, because virtue signaling is the best foundation for human morality toward strangers that we could reasonably expect from a process as blind and heartless as genetic evolution.

Some of this is cheap talk, but some of it is reliable signaling. What distinguishes good virtue signaling from bad virtue signaling isn’t just the reliability of the signal. It’s the actual real-world effects on sentient beings, societies and civilizations. When the instincts to virtue signal are combined with curiosity about science, open-mindedness about values and viewpoints, rationality about priorities and policies, and strategic savvy about ways and means, then wonderful things can happen. These more enlightened forms of virtue signaling have sparked the Protestant Reformation, American Revolution, abolitionist movement, anti-vivisection movement, women’s suffrage movement, free speech movement, and Effective Altruism movement. But when the instincts to virtue signal are not combined with curiosity, open-mindedness, rationality and strategic savvy—that’s when you get Robespierre’s Reign of Terror, Stalin’s Holodomor, Hitler’s Holocaust, Mao’s Cultural Revolution…and Twitter.

[frank ryan]

Department of Homeland Security strategy adds white supremacy to list of threats

For the first time since it was formed after the 9/11 attacks, the Department of Homeland Security is adding white supremacist violence to its list of priority threats in a revised counterterrorism strategy issued Friday...

DHS is stepping up its focus on what McAleenan called "targeted violence," in which an attacker selects the target in advance, driven by hate. Racism and anti-Semitism have fueled recent attacks on African-American churches, synagogues, and public places in California and Texas, he said....


Concern about the domestic terrorist threat peaked in the 1990s after the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, with a focus on what was called "patriot groups.” That was quickly overshadowed by the threat of foreign terrorism after the 9/11 suicide-airplane attacks.

But according to the FBI, more people have been killed in the U.S. by domestic terrorists in the past few years than by attacks committed or motivated by foreign ones. More domestic than foreign terror suspects have been arrested as well. FBI Director Chris Wray recently told Congress that the majority of the domestic terror attacks are racially motivated, mostly by white supremacists.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...reats-n1057136

[wapiti]

Department of Homeland Security strategy adds white supremacy to list of threats




https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...reats-n1057136

I'm surprised that racist Donald Trump didn't stop this from going into place.

[BlueK]

I'm surprised that racist Donald Trump didn't stop this from going into place.

clearly this cements his legacy as a true champion of civil rights.

[Bo Diddley]

I'm surprised that racist Donald Trump didn't stop this from going into place.

I'm surprised it wasn't already on the list. Hello, OKC Bombing.

[BlueK]

I'm surprised it wasn't already on the list. Hello, OKC Bombing.

The Dept of Homeland Security has only existed post-9/11. Still, that's a long time. The white supremacy movement lost a lot of steam after the OKC bombing as multiple federal lawsuits really cracked down on the financials of those kinds of groups and put them out of business.

[imanihonjin]

I'm surprised it wasn't already on the list. Hello, OKC Bombing.

The OKC bombing wasn't an act of White Supremacy, though, right?

[BlueK]

The OKC bombing wasn't an act of White Supremacy, though, right?

The act itself was an attack on the federal government, but McVeigh and Nichols both ran in the same circles with those types. McVeigh for a while went to gun shows selling copies of his favorite book, The Turner Diaries, which is a favorite of white supremacists and is overtly racist and antisemitic, by presenting whites as victims and promoting the idea of race wars. So you might be able to infer from that that he was at the very least sympathetic to those views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries

[imanihonjin]

The act itself was an attack on the federal government, but McVeigh and Nichols both ran in the same circles with those types. McVeigh for a while went to gun shows selling copies of his favorite book, The Turner Diaries, which is a favorite of white supremacists and is overtly racist and antisemitic, by presenting whites as victims and promoting the idea of race wars. So you might be able to infer from that that he was at the very least sympathetic to those views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries

He clearly was sympathetic towards those views, but the attack itself was because he was pissed of about what happened in Waco and Ruby Ridge.

[falafel]

clearly this cements his legacy as a true champion of civil rights.

moving the goal posts again.