Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[Flystripper]

That is all to be left to be seen isn't it—because we don't yet have the full report, so suggesting at this point there is no collusion is a "nothing burger."

With regards to the article, it is idiotic to state in the title there is no crime, and then proceed to site the crimes uncovered by an investigation, and then to state Mueller created said crimes ...



Mueller's report may well play out like the article suggests, but that is not a revelation. It's just common sense that that is one of the potential outcomes of the investigation.

brace yourself TB....I am agreeing with you (I know shocker, right?!) This is par for the course with Walter. He is impatient and assumes that no news must mean that nothing happened. He may end up being correct, but he is wanting to call it over when its not even close to being over. It took a LOOOOOONG time for Iran Contra, Watergate, etc. This thing is just getting started.

This graph is a little dated as it only covers the first year of Mueller's investigation but even if you extend the investigation another 6 months it is pretty illustrative

Mueller investigation comparison.JPG

[CardiacCoug]

I hate Trump as much as anyone but come on guys — a years-long, very expensive, wide-ranging fishing expedition into every aspect of a business life and personal life seems more than a little bit unfair.

These special prosecutions should have a limited scope and limited time frame. They should have a strictly observed mission to answer just a couple of specific criminal questions. Otherwise Trump has a point with the “witch hunt” claim.

[Moliere]

I hate Trump as much as anyone but come on guys — a years-long, very expensive, wide-ranging fishing expedition into every aspect of a business life and personal life seems more than a little bit unfair.

These special prosecutions should have a limited scope and limited time frame. They should have a strictly observed mission to answer just a couple of specific criminal questions. Otherwise Trump has a point with the “witch hunt” claim.

I agree. I’m also not sure if Trump paying hush money to a stripper is illegal, of course unless it is done with campaign funds. It’s a big deal and I think should disqualify him from being president, at least in voters eyes.

[frank ryan]

I hate Trump as much as anyone but come on guys — a years-long, very expensive, wide-ranging fishing expedition into every aspect of a business life and personal life seems more than a little bit unfair.

These special prosecutions should have a limited scope and limited time frame. They should have a strictly observed mission to answer just a couple of specific criminal questions. Otherwise Trump has a point with the “witch hunt” claim.

You should look at the graphic Flystripper posted. If you think this is a witchhunt, you haven't been paying attention.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I agree. I’m also not sure if Trump paying hush money to a stripper is illegal, of course unless it is done with campaign funds. It’s a big deal and I think should disqualify him from being president, at least in voters eyes.

It would be interesting to learn if there were payoffs prior to the 2016 campaign for any of the dozens of beautiful women Trump has bragged about sleeping with. If he can show that paying off his conquests was a routine practice for him, he's probably in the clear. But if he made such payoffs only in the weeks preceding the election, how can he claim such payments were not to influence the election?

[Uncle Ted]

It would be interesting to learn if there were payoffs prior to the 2016 campaign for any of the dozens of beautiful women Trump has bragged about sleeping with. If he can show that paying off his conquests was a routine practice for him, he's probably in the clear. But if he made such payoffs only in the weeks preceding the election, how can he claim such payments were not to influence the election?

It seems these payoffs are common among politicians (maybe that is why congress created a slush fund to do it)... But apparently they are not always beautiful women:

Embedded Tweet

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/taxpayer-piggy-bank-lets-congress-settle-sexual-harassment-cases-in-secret

Given that it is taxpayers money shouldn't we be given the details? I am personally surprised that the most transparent administration in history hasn't already disclosed all of this.

[Uncle Ted]

I agree. I’m also not sure if Trump paying hush money to a stripper is illegal, of course unless it is done with campaign funds. It’s a big deal and I think should disqualify him from being president, at least in voters eyes.

It might depend on the voter.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I see every indication that Mueller is being thorough and careful; exactly what someone in his position should be.

[tooblue]

It seems these payoffs are common among politicians (maybe that is why congress created a slush fund to do it)... But apparently they are not always beautiful women:

Embedded Tweet

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/taxpayer-piggy-bank-lets-congress-settle-sexual-harassment-cases-in-secret

Given that it is taxpayers money shouldn't we be given the details? I am personally surprised that the most transparent administration in history hasn't already disclosed all of this.

Uhm, you do realize none of what you posted changes the fact that what Donald trump did is not only wrong but illegal.

[Uncle Ted]

Uhm, you do realize none of what you posted changes the fact that what Donald trump did is not only wrong but illegal.

If it is illegal then he (or actually Cohen, who paid the money) should be charged and fined just like Obama was. Different party, same sh*t. Time for a new party.

[frank ryan]

Uhm, you do realize none of what you posted changes the fact that what Donald trump did is not only wrong but illegal.

With Edgelord Ted, when it comes to Trump he doesn’t care about the rule of law, he just cares about lolz from silly liberals’ reactions.

[frank ryan]

It seems these payoffs are common among politicians (maybe that is why congress created a slush fund to do it)... But apparently they are not always beautiful women:

Embedded Tweet

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/taxpayer-piggy-bank-lets-congress-settle-sexual-harassment-cases-in-secret

Given that it is taxpayers money shouldn't we be given the details? I am personally surprised that the most transparent administration in history hasn't already disclosed all of this.

That voter fraud commission sure wasn’t transparent.

[Uncle Ted]

That voter fraud commission sure wasn’t transparent.

I agree... We need to:

(1) Add a voter-verified paper audit trail (VVPAT) to all voting machines. Without VVPATs it is impossible to audit and verify that votes are being counted correctly. (We may never know if the voting machines are infected with malware from the Ruskies otherwise.)

(2) Add voter identification to polling places. Folks need to have government issued IDs so we can verify that Russians are not voting in place of registered voters. The argument of folks not having any kind of government issued ID is a joke. Get a f*ck'n ID, you dumbasses.

(3) Seriously consider getting rid of absentee ballots. Replace with more early voting and more polling locations (including remote polling locations for military, etc.) Absentee ballots seem like a huge source of voter shenanigans given all the ballots that are getting destroyed, etc.

[Eddie]

You should look at the graphic Flystripper posted. If you think this is a witchhunt, you haven't been paying attention.

Frank - I think people are calling it a witch hunt because of the actual charges and what is being investigated. If people are breaking the law and need to be held accountable, I don't know of anyone here to would want to let them off the hook. That aside - sure, there have been charges. Great. But I don't see where any of the charges actually have anything to do with collusion with Russia. That is the point I keep hearing. The stuff that is being uncovered is typical politics in DC - with the microscope on Trump and his associates.

So - Manafort cheated on his taxes. Great. What does that have to do with Russia and collusion? That's all stuff that could/should be investigated, sure - but it has NOTHING to do with the reasons we've been given for this whole inquiry.

People will say "Mueller was given discretion to expand the investigation and look into any illegal activity" - which is true. Sure. But this whole thing started because of "Russia collusion". And, quite honestly, it's a little disappointing that the best they can come up with is some lying under oath and tax evasion that occurred YEARS before the election.

How many of the charges are for lying about something under oath that these people wouldn't have lied about if it weren't for this investigation - and yet the thing that was lied about has nothing to do with collusion with Russia? That is why people are saying that the Mueller caused the charges that are coming as a result of the inquiry. Now - should these people lie under oath? No. Should they be held accountable for it? Sure. But can't you see why some folks are genuinely befuddled that the majority of the charges coming from the inquiry are direct results of the inquiry and not of illegal activity the inquiry is rooting out?

Finally - there are a lot of folks who agree that Mueller is a stand up guy and not one prone to corruption. But he also has a history of being a bulldog with blinders on who will pursue the person he thinks is guilty to the ends of the earth and cause that person all kinds of trouble - regardless of the evidence or that person's actual guilt.

Check this article from 8 years ago - long before Trump or any of this was going on. And Mueller's FBI costing the American taxpayers millions while chasing the wrong suspect - and ultimately settling and giving the guy nearly $6MM dollars for his trouble.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/05/the-wrong-man/308019/

So - while Mueller may be a stand up guy, that doesn't mean he is without faults and biases that could cause him to make some pretty big mistakes.

I agree with the idea that Trump colluded with Russia should be investigated. I've never had a problem with that. But the more we hear, the more questionable this whole thing is. How much of the current investigation into Russian collusion is a result of the bad dossier provided by Democrats that is more made up than WMD's in Iraq? For it to go on this long, Mueller BETTER come up with something more than all of this peripheral crap that has little to nothing to do with collusion with Russia. Because if there aren't solid leads along those lines he is pursuing, he really needs to wrap it up sooner rather than later. And pass along any concerns he has about other law breaking to the proper authorities to follow up.

[BigPiney]

Frank - I think people are calling it a witch hunt because of the actual charges and what is being investigated. If people are breaking the law and need to be held accountable, I don't know of anyone here to would want to let them off the hook. That aside - sure, there have been charges. Great. But I don't see where any of the charges actually have anything to do with collusion with Russia. That is the point I keep hearing. The stuff that is being uncovered is typical politics in DC - with the microscope on Trump and his associates.

So - Manafort cheated on his taxes. Great. What does that have to do with Russia and collusion? That's all stuff that could/should be investigated, sure - but it has NOTHING to do with the reasons we've been given for this whole inquiry.

People will say "Mueller was given discretion to expand the investigation and look into any illegal activity" - which is true. Sure. But this whole thing started because of "Russia collusion". And, quite honestly, it's a little disappointing that the best they can come up with is some lying under oath and tax evasion that occurred YEARS before the election.

How many of the charges are for lying about something under oath that these people wouldn't have lied about if it weren't for this investigation - and yet the thing that was lied about has nothing to do with collusion with Russia? That is why people are saying that the Mueller caused the charges that are coming as a result of the inquiry. Now - should these people lie under oath? No. Should they be held accountable for it? Sure. But can't you see why some folks are genuinely befuddled that the majority of the charges coming from the inquiry are direct results of the inquiry and not of illegal activity the inquiry is rooting out?

Finally - there are a lot of folks who agree that Mueller is a stand up guy and not one prone to corruption. But he also has a history of being a bulldog with blinders on who will pursue the person he thinks is guilty to the ends of the earth and cause that person all kinds of trouble - regardless of the evidence or that person's actual guilt.

Check this article from 8 years ago - long before Trump or any of this was going on. And Mueller's FBI costing the American taxpayers millions while chasing the wrong suspect - and ultimately settling and giving the guy nearly $6MM dollars for his trouble.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/05/the-wrong-man/308019/

So - while Mueller may be a stand up guy, that doesn't mean he is without faults and biases that could cause him to make some pretty big mistakes.

I agree with the idea that Trump colluded with Russia should be investigated. I've never had a problem with that. But the more we hear, the more questionable this whole thing is. How much of the current investigation into Russian collusion is a result of the bad dossier provided by Democrats that is more made up than WMD's in Iraq? For it to go on this long, Mueller BETTER come up with something more than all of this peripheral crap that has little to nothing to do with collusion with Russia. Because if there aren't solid leads along those lines he is pursuing, he really needs to wrap it up sooner rather than later. And pass along any concerns he has about other law breaking to the proper authorities to follow up.

Thank you for that. Very clear and reasonable summary of people's concerns. Helped me to understand where some are coming from.