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  • frank ryan
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 12268

    #391
    Originally posted by falafel View Post
    Only because socialism is the stepping stone to communism.
    someone warn all of Europe and Canada!

    Comment

    • falafel
      loves to talk on things
      • Mar 2009
      • 37870

      #392
      Originally posted by tooblue View Post
      So, the United States is just one step away from communism?
      I mean you have to go through socialism to get to communism.
      Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

      Dig your own grave, and save!

      "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

      "I know that you are one of the cool and 'edgy' BYU fans" -- Wally

      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

      Comment

      • tooblue
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 5104

        #393
        Originally posted by falafel View Post
        I mean you have to go through socialism to get to communism.
        So, when is the Donald going to eliminate all of the "economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of [the US's] capitalist economy?" When will the federal government, under the charge of the swamp drainer stop "[regulating] ... the [US] economy in general, [and in the interest of] welfare state provisions?"

        Of course, the very idea of a "federal government" is in fact a socialist idea, but I see all over Facebook that the Donald supposedly gets stuff done, so get'er done already!
        Last edited by tooblue; 02-27-2020, 06:18 PM.

        Comment

        • Pelado
          Bald not naked
          • Sep 2010
          • 21088

          #394
          Originally posted by tooblue View Post
          So, when is the Donald going to eliminate all of the "economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of [the US's] capitalist economy?" When will the federal government, under the charge of the swamp drainer stop "[regulating] ... the [US] economy in general, [and in the interest of] welfare state provisions?"

          Of course, the very idea of a "federal government" is in fact a socialist idea, but I see all over Facebook that the Donald supposedly gets stuff done, so get'er done already!
          How do you figure? I don't remember Madison reading a book on Marx.
          "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
          - Goatnapper'96

          Comment

          • tooblue
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2008
            • 5104

            #395
            Originally posted by Pelado View Post
            How do you figure? I don't remember Madison reading a book on Marx.
            Sequentially and historically speaking, Marx likely read Madison, among others. Here's what looks like an interesting read:

            The North American Origin of Marx's Socialism

            https://www.jstor.org/stable/445958?seq=1

            NOTE: it was published by the University of Utah

            Comment

            • Pelado
              Bald not naked
              • Sep 2010
              • 21088

              #396
              Originally posted by tooblue View Post
              Sequentially and historically speaking, Marx likely read Madison, among others. Here's what looks like an interesting read:

              The North American Origin of Marx's Socialism

              https://www.jstor.org/stable/445958?seq=1

              NOTE: it was published by the University of Utah
              Not seeing any support there for your statement that "the very idea of a "federal government" is in fact a socialist idea".
              "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
              - Goatnapper'96

              Comment

              • tooblue
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 5104

                #397
                Originally posted by Pelado View Post
                Not seeing any support there for your statement that "the very idea of a "federal government" is in fact a socialist idea".
                What exactly does a federal government do? Among other things, it regulates trade and creates systems of taxation to pay for nationalized programs ... ie socialist programs.

                Socialism is: “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.”

                What came first, the federal government, or socialism?

                Last edited by tooblue; 02-27-2020, 08:34 PM.

                Comment

                • Pelado
                  Bald not naked
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 21088

                  #398
                  Originally posted by tooblue View Post
                  What exactly does a federal government do? Among other things, it regulates trade and creates systems of taxation to pay for nationalized programs ... ie socialist programs.

                  Socialism is: “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.”

                  What came first, the federal government, or socialism?

                  Revolution.
                  "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
                  - Goatnapper'96

                  Comment

                  • All-American
                    Right, as Usual
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 15638

                    #399
                    Originally posted by Pelado View Post
                    How do you figure? I don't remember Madison reading a book on Marx.
                    Did the quartet practice in the park?
                    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

                    Comment

                    • creekster
                      It is NOT a monkey!
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 22661

                      #400
                      Originally posted by All-American View Post
                      Did the quartet practice in the park?
                      While we sang dirges in the dark.
                      PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                      Comment

                      • frank ryan
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 12268

                        #401
                        Originally posted by Pelado View Post
                        How do you figure? I don't remember Madison reading a book on Marx.
                        Found this trivia interesting. Lincoln and Marx were penpals.

                        Comment

                        • Pelado
                          Bald not naked
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 21088

                          #402
                          Originally posted by All-American View Post
                          Did the quartet practice in the park?
                          Originally posted by creekster View Post
                          While we sang dirges in the dark.
                          I'm glad the reference wasn't wasted.
                          "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
                          - Goatnapper'96

                          Comment

                          • tooblue
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 5104

                            #403
                            Originally posted by Pelado View Post
                            Revolution.
                            The powerful labour unions that we know today started due to the abhorrent working conditions steel workers faced at the outset of the US era of gilded age capitalism. That period of unfettered capitalism led to incredible social change, and forced an inherently socialist federal government to act to protect citizens. Capitalism unchecked leads to socialist policies and programs that can only be enforced by a federal mandate.
                            Last edited by tooblue; 02-28-2020, 07:15 AM.

                            Comment

                            • wuapinmon
                              Soul Plumber
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 30711

                              #404
                              Originally posted by tooblue View Post
                              Capitalism unchecked leads to socialist policies and programs that can only be enforced by a federal mandate.
                              Anyone who wonders what the unfettered, unadulterated belief in laissez faire capitalism causes should examine all of the contributing factors of the Irish Potato Famine. There was plenty of food in Ireland. The abuses of the laissez faire elite (and their selling that doctrine to the European middle class) gave rise to the social conditions that fomented the rise of communism and socialism in Europe in the late 1800s. By the time most nations had internal combustion engines for farm work, the peasants who didn't have horrific factory jobs were left without any means to eat. It's little wonder that both cities and countryside rose up against the landed gentry and industrial tycoons and threatened to overthrow every government in the Western world. Fettered capitalism is great and how I like to live. Unfettered capitalism makes the rich richer and destroys the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

                              Regulate business. Feed the hungry. Heal the sick. Invest in and maintain infrastructure. Protect the environment. Make sure soldiers who are injured or wounded in combat or training for combat enjoy a middle-class lifestyle. Expand opportunities for education (of all types). Give people employment who want it and can't find it (e.g., CCC, WPA). Fund research into every technology that will improve the quality of life. Be patriotic, not jingoistic. That's how you stave off socialism. FDR was a genius.
                              "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                              The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                              Comment

                              • Katy Lied
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 9435

                                #405
                                Originally posted by tooblue View Post
                                The powerful labour unions that we know today started due to the abhorrent working conditions steel workers faced at the outset of the US era of gilded age capitalism. That period of unfettered capitalism led to incredible social change, and forced an inherently socialist federal government to act to protect citizens. Capitalism unchecked leads to socialist policies and programs that can only be enforced by a federal mandate.
                                As Marx says, ya gotta go through Capitalism to get to socialism.

                                Comment

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