President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[chrisrenrut]

The video is actually pretty good, but we decided early on we wouldn't show it as a 20+ minute video of anything would positively kill any hope of a good discussion. We sent everyone a link to the video and President Oaks's very good 2021 talk on the Constitution, asking them to review both and to come prepared to ask about everything they wanted to know about the Declaration and Constitution but were afraid to ask (I expect a minimum of 5% of the audience will do so).

Among other things, I'm going to touch on Walter Isaacson's The Greatest Sentence Ever Written ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...") which by itself is worth an hour's discussion.

I would love that approach, as would most adults. But my audience includes a quorum of 6 hyperactive deacons. I’m leaning into the video’s inherent somnolent qualities. As Stanley said on the office, “This is a run out the clock situation”

[Shaka]

I think the solution to Trump voters is to cut them out of our lives completely. Like, there should be camps where we can concentrate them so that we know that we are safely separated from them. To try to understand them and live beside them is too dangerous.

[Moliere]

The video is actually pretty good, but we decided early on we wouldn't show it as a 20+ minute video of anything would positively kill any hope of a good discussion. We sent everyone a link to the video and President Oaks's very good 2021 talk on the Constitution, asking them to review both and to come prepared to ask about everything they wanted to know about the Declaration and Constitution but were afraid to ask (I expect a minimum of 5% of the audience will do so).

Among other things, I'm going to touch on Walter Isaacson's The Greatest Sentence Ever Written ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...") which by itself is worth an hour's discussion.

You might be letting your lawyer bias dictate what you think people will be interested in discussing

[frank ryan]

TDS, lol. Got me there, and I am cowed.

The TDS term needs to be retired. It's lazy retort. I think the onus is increasingly on MAGA to explain how Trump makes any sense.

It was a MAGA slogan to "make libs cry," and plastered on bumper stickers and merchandise. Trump isn't exactly being picked on unfairly, he is just historically awful.

[frank ryan]

I think the solution to Trump voters is to cut them out of our lives completely. Like, there should be camps where we can concentrate them so that we know that we are safely separated from them. To try to understand them and live beside them is too dangerous.

You didn't get the news. Camps are for illegals and people that get mistaken for illegals because they aren't white.

[PaloAltoCougar]

You might be letting your lawyer bias dictate what you think people will be interested in discussing

Harsh but fair.

[Maximus]

I find this to be rather arrogant. Who or what determines when a person is not being honest. Based on their answer which you do not like hey see they don’t fit into your pre-conceived opinion of what a person is in regards to Trump. Your TDS is shinning through.

Please explain how trump is moral enough to warrant support. Like religious morality. Keep on mind the letter rhe 1st presidency used to send. There is no way to say trump passes rhe bar .

[Maximus]

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[Maximus]

But what is the point? Why are you (and others) so concerned about Shaka's level of allegiance to Trump? What actually is the "intellectual honesty" that you seek? That by god, Shaka finally comes out of the closet and admits that he really is full MAGA as you have suspected all along? Seriously?

Furthermore, I hate Trump and would never dream of voting for him. But if Shaka's calculus is different than mine, who the hell cares? Our political discussions would benefit from more diversity around here, not less.

For example, when Trump does something incredibly stupid, a common reaction from some folks here is:

"Why are our trump supporters silent about this?"
"Where is the outrage from our trump supporters?"
"How can Shaka, etc continue to support this guy?"
Etc

It's as if the idea that someone here has the audacity to be a Trump supporter (at any level or at any point in time) is more disconcerting than the actual dumb stuff trump does.

It is almost like trump supporters are the cause of trumps actions

Any corruption or immorality or bad thing trump does... is a result of their votes and thus responsibility

[Northwestcoug]

A 250 foot arch. 1.776 billion slush fund. And a $250 bill with Trump’s picture. When you can’t/won’t govern I guess you go all in on symbolism.

“Starting last year, two political appointees at the Treasury Department — U.S. Treasurer Brandon Beach and his senior adviser, Mike Brown — repeatedly urged staff at the agency’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing to prepare prototypes of the note, according to the employees, who said the move raised concerns because federal law currently allows only deceased people to appear on bills.

And a nice reminder of the caliber of people Trump appoints to government positions:

Beach, who was appointed treasurer in March 2025 and has direct oversight of the U.S. Mint, is a former Georgia state senator who backed Trump’s 2020 election denial claims

https://apple.news/AumuPYQRFSh-fYEGD7dBZjQ

[YOhio]

It is almost like trump supporters are the cause of trumps actions

Any corruption or immorality or bad thing trump does... is a result of their votes and thus responsibility

This type of reasoning provides the logical foundation for political violence. Particularly when paired with the dehumanizing language used to describe Trump supporters.

[Moliere]

This type of reasoning provides the logical foundation for political violence. Particularly when paired with the dehumanizing language used to describe Trump supporters.

And unfortunately young liberals seem to think more and more that political violence is justified…

[frank ryan]

This type of reasoning provides the logical foundation for political violence. Particularly when paired with the dehumanizing language used to describe Trump supporters.

***whataboutism incoming***. If you care about dehumanizing language you should care about what's going with MAGA. JD Vance wrote a forward for a book that details going after liberals and viewing as enemies and inhuman. It's called "Unhumans."

The vitriol and cruelty spewed by Trump is unmatched.

[YOhio]

***whataboutism incoming***. If you care about dehumanizing language you should care about what's going with MAGA. JD Vance wrote a forward for a book that details going after liberals and viewing as enemies and inhuman. It's called "Unhumans."

The vitriol and cruelty spewed by Trump is unmatched.

I do care about it which is why I don't use it.

[LVAllen]

This type of reasoning provides the logical foundation for political violence. Particularly when paired with the dehumanizing language used to describe Trump supporters.

When my dog poops on the sidewalk, it's my responsibility.

When my dog bites someone, it's my fault.

When my elected representative hurts someone, I share the responsibility. Yes, this is the case even if I didn't vote for them. They still represent ME.

If I am actively cheering for the dog to bite or the representative to hurt, I should not be surprised if people who are being bitten or hurt call me an asshole. That's not dehumanizing. It's recognizing there is a direct path between making someone your representative and ultimately being responsible for the decisions they make. If they make really shitty decisions and you aren't calling for their replacement, the rep and others are justified in assuming you either approve of the actions or are indifferent.

Trump supporters like their attack dog. They like who he hurts. They like the way he hurts them.