President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[BigFatMeanie]

I can see most of those things. What I can’t see is not being able to recognize how much worse Donald Trump makes EVERY SINGLE ONE of those things. That’s what I can’t see. You claim to be terrified of a future that a Donald Trump win all but guarantees. A pretty damn big part of understanding where the other side is coming from is agreeing on facts. That isn’t possible when one side makes them up out of whole cloth constantly. Sorry, I mean makes some alternative ones. And the idea of DT being some sort of conservative stalwart is just stupid. What exactly do you think would happen if Democrats took both chambers and decided to stroke his ego a little bit. They could have him outlawing all firearms and nationalizing healthcare in about a week if they gave him credit.

Only one side makes facts up out of whole cloth constantly? Which side is that?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Trump isn't a conservative stalwart. No one is saying he is. The "true" conservatives don't want him either because he's too liberal. The popular "RINO" designation. (What they don't understand is less than a quarter of people think like them - and if they kicked everyone out of the GOP that isn't conservative enough, they'd never win another election on any level.)

But if you can't see the difference between what the GOP/Trump proposes and what the Dem/Biden camp are proposing, you aren't looking closely enough.

I get what you're saying about stroking his ego - but that's a little too simplistic. Especially because he's been called bad names enough times by then - and he isn't the forgiving sort. I'm assuming you've noticed that.

I agree that there is a level of cognitive dissonance going on - but most people voting for Trump simply say that the most negative elements about him don't really impact them day to day. Particularly if they don't follow him or his twitter feed. Like I've said - that's not necessarily where I'm coming from. But I understand where my friends and family who feel that way are coming from.

Your "friends and family" are grossly overstating the damage that Biden will do. Same kind of dumb hyperbole I hear from my friends and family.

[Non Sequitur]

Trump isn't a conservative stalwart. No one is saying he is. The "true" conservatives don't want him either because he's too liberal. The popular "RINO" designation. (What they don't understand is less than a quarter of people think like them - and if they kicked everyone out of the GOP that isn't conservative enough, they'd never win another election on any level.)

But if you can't see the difference between what the GOP/Trump proposes and what the Dem/Biden camp are proposing, you aren't looking closely enough.

I get what you're saying about stroking his ego - but that's a little too simplistic. Especially because he's been called bad names enough times by then - and he isn't the forgiving sort. I'm assuming you've noticed that.

I agree that there is a level of cognitive dissonance going on - but most people voting for Trump simply say that the most negative elements about him don't really impact them day to day. Particularly if they don't follow him or his twitter feed. Like I've said - that's not necessarily where I'm coming from. But I understand where my friends and family who feel that way are coming from.

Sadly, like yours, my family and friends are also morally compromised. I share your shame.

[frank ryan]

Sadly, like yours, my family and friends are also morally compromised. I share your shame.

Hold on a second, Eddie may or may not be coming from the same his family and friends are. Either way, I suspect there is zero shame.

[frank ryan]

I can tell you how the people I know justify voting for him.

What they tell me is that they have a choice between two people with a realistic chance of becoming president. One is a bad person with no integrity who supports a platform of policies that go against everything they believe in. The second person is an absolutely horrible individual, but also happens to support a platform of policies that generally aligns with what they believe in - with some "minor differences", particularly compared to the first guy.

And they feel like they have to support the guy who at least proposes some semblance of what they believe is right.

Personally - I've said before that I didn't vote for Trump last time around. And I don't necessarily see myself voting for him now. But I can understand that thought processes above.

I have no idea what Trump did or didn't say with relation to the Atlantic article. But I do 100% believe that Trump doesn't understand why people would join the military, especially if they have other "job options." They are putting their lives at risk. His world view is all about "what's in it for me."

I also view Trump's comments about McCain slightly differently. I don't think they are right in any way - but I see them more as a reflection of Trump throwing schoolyard insults at McCain - someone he saw as a rival and opponent. I seriously doubt he thought very deeply about what he was saying about POW's as much as he was trying to minimize McCain and "burn" him. This world will be a better place when Trump isn't president, for a variety of reasons.

I just wish I could believe that Biden being president would help make the US a better place. This whole election cycle is so disheartening because no matter who wins, it feels like we all lose. At least for the next 4 years.

So how is Biden an awful person, and anywhere close to on par with Trump?

I'm not the least bit surprised you'd still consider voting for Trump. Just own it, and drop the faux-moderate facade. If you haven't ruled out voting for Trump at this point, you aren't a moderate voter.

It's not neutral the winner will either make things worse or better. If you can see Biden making things at least a little less shitty (better) than Trump is your guy.

[cowboy]

This is the crazy convergence of the left and the right.

A lot of Republican governors are telling the “liberal scientists” at heath departments that if they just were better at their jobs there “would be no COVID!”

This fact is that this virus was going to roll through all of Europe and the USA and the rest of the world and after about February first it wouldn’t have made any difference if Trump or Hillary were President or if all 50 states had Republican governors or Democratic governors. The die was cast.

On the list of justifiable criticism Trump deserves, US COVID transmission and morbidity belongs at the bottom, if at all. We'll all be exposed to it eventually, and any government measure beyond fast-tracking research on treatment and vaccination will stop it from killing 2-3 million people. Our biggest challenge will be getting the economy healthy enough to pay the bill. Mandates and imposed shutdowns at this point do nothing but make the economy worse, further weakening our ability to develop the treatments we need.

Unfortunately, Biden's proposed economic policies have a high likelihood of plunging us into a depression. I don't know that Trump's economic policies would avert a depression, but I give them a slightly better chance.

[Commando]

On the list of justifiable criticism Trump deserves, US COVID transmission and morbidity belongs at the bottom, if at all. We'll all be exposed to it eventually, and any government measure beyond fast-tracking research on treatment and vaccination will stop it from killing 2-3 million people. Our biggest challenge will be getting the economy healthy enough to pay the bill. Mandates and imposed shutdowns at this point do nothing but make the economy worse, further weakening our ability to develop the treatments we need.

Unfortunately, Biden's proposed economic policies have a high likelihood of plunging us into a depression. I don't know that Trump's economic policies would avert a depression, but I give them a slightly better chance.

Disagree. A focused national strategy could have averted a lot of the economic ruin we've had due to the patchwork choose-your-own-adventure strategy he opted for by punting to the states, not to mention untold deaths.

[Now who’s the dean?]

President Trump: Making America Great Again...

On the list of justifiable criticism Trump deserves, US COVID transmission and morbidity belongs at the bottom, if at all. We'll all be exposed to it eventually, and any government measure beyond fast-tracking research on treatment and vaccination will stop it from killing 2-3 million people. Our biggest challenge will be getting the economy healthy enough to pay the bill. Mandates and imposed shutdowns at this point do nothing but make the economy worse, further weakening our ability to develop the treatments we need.

Unfortunately, Biden's proposed economic policies have a high likelihood of plunging us into a depression. I don't know that Trump's economic policies would avert a depression, but I give them a slightly better chance.

Which policies have a high likelihood of plunging us into a depression? Are they the same ones that plunged us into the Clinton and Obama depressions?

[Jarid in Cedar]

On the list of justifiable criticism Trump deserves, US COVID transmission and morbidity belongs at the bottom, if at all. We'll all be exposed to it eventually, and any government measure beyond fast-tracking research on treatment and vaccination will stop it from killing 2-3 million people. Our biggest challenge will be getting the economy healthy enough to pay the bill. Mandates and imposed shutdowns at this point do nothing but make the economy worse, further weakening our ability to develop the treatments we need.

Unfortunately, Biden's proposed economic policies have a high likelihood of plunging us into a depression. I don't know that Trump's economic policies would avert a depression, but I give them a slightly better chance.

My criticism of Trump during the pandemic is about the things he has done/said. Not the things he should have done.

With rare exception, his actions and words have made my job more difficult. The amount of time and mental energy wasted refuting all of verbal diarrhea cannot be understated.

From the initial denials that COVID was a problem, to aggressively promoting an unproven (now proven ineffective) treatment, mocking mask wearers, complaining that we are doing to much testing, etc, etc, etc.

The amount of wasted energy on hydroxychloroquine alone is damning. The day after his "game changer" statement, the FDA gave it EUA status. Which basically opened the flood gates to its use. In doing so, getting people into randomized trials was delayed and even thwarted. Because no one would agree to potentially receive a placebo if there was a chance that it could help. Without the EUA, there were enough patients in NYC alone the first three weeks of the pandemic to get adequate numbers to give us a definitive answer on HCQ by mid May. Instead, it took until July to get enough randomized data. Even after that, we still are wasting energy and time refuting every doctor who is trying to drive viewers to their YouTube by claiming a political conspiracy is holding back this revolutionary "cure".

If he would just shut his damn mouth and let the professionals do their job, he wouldn't be behind the 8 ball in the polls, even with the same outcomes as they are.

But that is never going to happen, so here we are.

[CardiacCoug]

My criticism of Trump during the pandemic is about the things he had done/said. Not the things he should have done.

With rare exception, his actions and words have made my job more difficult. From the initial denials that COVID was a problem, to aggressively promoting an unproven (now proven ineffective) treatment, mocking mask wearers, complaining that we are doing to much testing, etc, etc, etc.

The amount of wasted energy on hydroxychloroquine alone is damning. The day after his "game changer" statement, the FDA gave it EUA status. Which basically opened the flood gates to its use. In doing so, getting people into randomized trials was delayed and even thwarted. Because no one would agree to potentially receive a placebo if there was a chance that it could help. Without the EUA, there were enough patients in NYC alone the first three weeks of the pandemic to get adequate numbers to give us a definitive answer on HCQ by mid May. Instead, it took until July to get enough randomized data. Even after that, we still are wasting energy and time refuting every doctor who is trying to drive viewers to their YouTube by claiming a political conspiracy is holding back this revolutionary "cure".

Yup this makes sense.

I usually think that Trump the windbag is just being ignored. However not just Trump fan-citizens but a lot of state governments were listening to Trump and the hydroxychloroquine nonsense.

Amazing to me how many politicians and of course the dummy-in-chief Trump lack even a basic understanding of the scientific method.

A single patient will write to a politician and tell them that he started to feel better after getting hydroxychloroquine and they don’t understand how completely irrelevant that experience is. Uhhh.... everybody (almost) gets better anyway!

[Non Sequitur]

On the list of justifiable criticism Trump deserves, US COVID transmission and morbidity belongs at the bottom, if at all. We'll all be exposed to it eventually, and any government measure beyond fast-tracking research on treatment and vaccination will stop it from killing 2-3 million people. Our biggest challenge will be getting the economy healthy enough to pay the bill. Mandates and imposed shutdowns at this point do nothing but make the economy worse, further weakening our ability to develop the treatments we need.

Unfortunately, Biden's proposed economic policies have a high likelihood of plunging us into a depression. I don't know that Trump's economic policies would avert a depression, but I give them a slightly better chance.

What, exactly, are these nefarious economic policies of Biden that so terrify you, and what, exactly, are the economic policies of Trump that have you geeked enough to ignore his stench?

[Eddie]

So how is Biden an awful person, and anywhere close to on par with Trump?

I'm not the least bit surprised you'd still consider voting for Trump. Just own it, and drop the faux-moderate facade. If you haven't ruled out voting for Trump at this point, you aren't a moderate voter.

It's not neutral the winner will either make things worse or better. If you can see Biden making things at least a little less shitty (better) than Trump is your guy.

So - if I understand you correctly - you're saying that "bad" is essentially "on the par" with "absolutely horrible."

Honestly, that explains a lot. It certainly explains enough that I don't see any reason to respond to the rest of your post.

I mean - you are so jaded towards anything that I say at this point that I don't trust you to even accurately read a damn thing before coming up with 1000 ways to interpret whatever I typed to mean "I want to have Trump's baby." With that in mind - I'm just not sure it's worth my time to respond to you. You won't actually read most of what I say. What little you do read, you'll find the most subjective way to distort. And you honestly don't demonstrate any interest in understanding another perspective. So there doesn't seem to be a point to attempting to have a dialogue here.

[Northwestcoug]

The attempt to paint Biden’s economic policies as socialism is laughable on its face. Biden has a legislative record. Even taking into account his drift leftward the past few years, he is still center left. The chance of his policies hurtling us toward a depression is about the same as the current GOP’s policies.

[Katy Lied]

I havent ruled out voting for Trump and I absolutely loath him. My vote is Biden's to lose, but I am really afraid that he has lost his mind. If his job is taken over by Kamala Harris, as the constitution provides, then I just need to know what her positions are, not too hard to find out. But if he is propped up like a puppet with the decisions coming from some shadowy cabal, then I want to know more. He wouldn't be the first or even the second US president to govern in name only.

[frank ryan]

I havent ruled out voting for Trump and I absolutely loath him. My vote is Biden's to lose, but I am really afraid that he has lost his mind. If his job is taken over by Kamala Harris, as the constitution provides, then I just need to know what her positions are, not too hard to find out. But if he is propped up like a puppet with the decisions coming from some shadowy cabal, then I want to know more. He wouldn't be the first or even the second US president to govern in name only.

Katie, the position that Biden has his mind but Trump has greater mental acuity is strange. As for cabal's look no further than those who actually have influence over Trump.