President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[frank ryan]

Trump is not a conservative. He is a populist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.29d222a5d491

Someone has been drinking the

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thank you for helping me make my point. As I said, it's the work of many influencers in his administration that are helping achieve conservative goals. Trump wouldn't do all of this on his own.

Weird response. Has anyone argued he is doing things on his own? Didn't I just say he is a populist?

Sure, he has accomplished a few good things. And a bunch of bad things. This "he is an idiot but it's ok because he is surrounded by conservatives" line of thinking is delusional, IMO. He is doing plenty of damage.

I sure hope those conservative movers and shakers stop this stupid trade war!

[Commando]

I'm not an expert on immigration law, but I know non-citizens don't have the same rights as citizens. Many on this issue don't want him to enforce the existing laws, and apparently you want to pick and choose which laws to follow to suit your political views.

Oh you're not? Weird- because my fb feed is jam packed with newly minted immigration experts repeating Trump's talking points as though any one of you know wtf you're talking about. On one of my friends' feeds right now there is a g***mn FedEx worker arguing with about 5 immigration attorneys about Trump's child separation policy. He is firmly entrenched in his woefully ignorant and starkly wrong position, which to me about perfectly encapsulates arguing with a Trump supporter on anything.

I'm not an expert on immigration law, but I know non-citizens don't have the same rights as citizens. Many on this issue don't want him to enforce the existing laws, and apparently you want to pick and choose which laws to follow to suit your political views.

Really? Which rights are those? And are you distinguishing between lawful permanent residents and U.S. citizens, too? What about nonimmigrants? Or are you specifically talking about undocumented immigrants? As long as you are positive that you "know" something, be specific about it or don't even mention it.

I'm not an expert on immigration law, but I know non-citizens don't have the same rights as citizens. Many on this issue don't want him to enforce the existing laws, and apparently you want to pick and choose which laws to follow to suit your political views.

Now this is the funny part. Do you understand that the government has finite resources, and that the "zero tolerance" policy (a purely political policy, if you care) is exhausting those resources by enforcing every single ticky tack misdemeanor entry without inspection so that other more serious offenses at the border cannot be enforced? Why would he do that? Gee- it's almost as though it's purely to separate families at the border to discourage asylum applicants like a f*king monster. Reminds me of when Sheriff Joe decided to start enforcing immigration laws- using your same impeccable argument that all laws must be enforced, by the way- and "forgot" to prosecute thousands of child sex abuse cases in Maricopa County. Whoops. And back to the subject I brought up: Trump is literally trying to circumvent due process for asylum applicants, and if he can't do it, he'll change the law to do it. Sounds normal.

And down the memory hole go Obama statements like: "If they [the GOP] bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun," he said during a fundraiser in Philadelphia in June 2008. "Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl.

OH NOES!!! Yeah Obama's facetious comments are just a bit different than Trump instructing his zombies to kick protesters' asses and promising to pay their legal bills, and lamenting the 'old days' when protesters got beaten within an inch of their lives, etc. What a loser.

You have a problem with a military parade on Veteran's Day? It's not in Trump's honor. Sheesh. The French do one, too. Oh wait, they actually do have a history of dictators...

Yes I do have a problem with it. And of COURSE it's in Trump's honor. If he had any honor for vets he would fix the shitshow that is Veteran's Affairs and not spend a dime on a stupid military parade that countries with shitty militaries have to put on to convince themselves they are powerful. I watched a military exercise in Guatemala and all I could think was "whoopdie fricking doo." We are America- let's act like we have some self-esteem. Why do we have to have a military parade? It's almost like Trump can't help but telegraph how minuscule his orange wee wee is.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I love you, Commando.

[Commando]

This asshole can't stop lying. I wonder if he knows that MS-13 is an American gang that terrorizes undocumented immigrants.... kind of like ICE, now that I think about it...

Embedded Tweet

[Moliere]

Abolish ICE?

ICE will just be replaced by the next immigration enforcement department.

Funny how the dems are using the repub playbook.

[frank ryan]

Abolish ICE?

ICE will just be replaced by the next immigration enforcement department.

Funny how the dems are using the repub playbook.

I’ll help you out. It’s more the position that ICE as a specific organization needs to be disbanded and not that there be no organisation to do the job. They feel the current agency leadership and current is corrupt and compromised that the agency needs to be scrapped.

Now the current GOP playbook is to win, and appoint people to destroy and act against the missions of agencies that are philosophically problematic.

[Moliere]

I’ll help you out. It’s more the position that ICE as a specific organization needs to be disbanded and not that there be no organisation to do the job. They feel the current agency leadership and current is corrupt and compromised that the agency needs to be scrapped.

I think that’s a dumb position and I don’t support it. However, it’s not dumb enough to make me vote against the dems/resistance.

[frank ryan]

I think that’s a dumb position and I don’t support it. However, it’s not dumb enough to make me vote against the dems/resistance.

It seems like an emotional one. I support a leadership change at the agency but nuking the whole thing and creating a new one isn’t realistic. Commando can correct me, but I think much of this problem has been because of Justice depart. instructions, although there have been recent cases of ICE ignoring the need for warrents etc and abuse of children.

[Commando]

It seems like an emotional one. I support a leadership change at the agency but nuking the whole thing and creating a new one isn’t realistic. Commando can correct me, but I think much of this problem has been because of Justice depart. instructions, although there have been recent cases of ICE ignoring the need for warrents etc and abuse of children.

ICE serves at the pleasure of the President, basically, and their whole thing for the past 2 years has been a joke. The head of ICE gets on the podium and lies like Sarah Huckabee Sanders about who's a danger and what's a priority. They've been complicit in Trump's anti-immigrant propaganda (getting victims of crimes committed by immigrants on a stage, pumping up the threat of MS13, etc) There is not even an attempt to pretend they are an independent agency (which they're not, but we would feel better if they did have a clear, non-political mandate) -- they are basically Trump's mini-Gestapo, if that term isn't too offensive to los sensitivos. ICE endorsed Trump when he was running. WTF? Not surprisingly, when Trump took office he cranked up funding and hiring of ICE agents so that basically everybody got a promotion. Then, when Trump wiped out Obama's carefully curated set of priorities for immigration enforcement he declared open season on the low-hanging fruit: grandmas, sick children, and other non-criminal aliens who could be quickly and easily snatched up by ICE. There's a different established anti-trafficking sector of ICE who have formally petitioned to not be affiliated with detention and removal operations. That's how big of an embarrassment they've been. I'm not sure the solution is to "abolish" ICE, but we sure wouldn't miss em.

[Crockett]

Oh you're not? Weird- because my fb feed is jam packed with newly minted immigration experts repeating Trump's talking points as though any one of you know wtf you're talking about. On one of my friends' feeds right now there is a g***mn FedEx worker arguing with about 5 immigration attorneys about Trump's child separation policy. He is firmly entrenched in his woefully ignorant and starkly wrong position, which to me about perfectly encapsulates arguing with a Trump supporter on anything.

Have I been arguing immigration law on here? Don't assume I'm the same as some people on your or your friends' facebook feeds. You may think you know me and lump me in with others, but I'm not some blind Trump supporter. I fall in the Mitt Romney and / or Ben Shapiro camp -- I'm pleased with and will support Trump's progress on conservative goals and policies, but will not hesitate to criticize and NOT support stuff when it's wrong. I don't automatically assume the best or the worst with him. I much preferred other candidates over Trump, but I have no regrets having him as president versus Hillary. That was the choice.

BTW, are you for open borders? Should anyone who wants to move here be allowed to? If not, we can probably get close to agreeing with one another. As you said, there are finite resources. We can't absorb everyone that might want to move here. I'm not for completely closed borders. I very much sympathize with the plight of people seeking a better life here. I don't think immigration should be merit-based only. I would support a system that allows not only legitimate asylum-seekers, but also people that just want a better life. Maybe that's a lottery, maybe there is a better way. I would support a guest worker program that allows some people to come and go legally. I'm not totally aligned with Trump on border issues, but I do think we need to enforce our borders and know who is coming and going. Other countries do so, but when the US does then we are horrible, apparently.

Also, I'd like people to recognize the genuine difficulty and nuance of the immigration matter, without going full blast and calling everyone monsters. There are significant numbers of adults traveling with children that they are not related to. There is some human trafficking going on. How do we protect children in those situations? Separation is sometimes appropriate.

Really? Which rights are those? And are you distinguishing between lawful permanent residents and U.S. citizens, too? What about nonimmigrants? Or are you specifically talking about undocumented immigrants? As long as you are positive that you "know" something, be specific about it or don't even mention it.

I'm not on here arguing immigration law so chill out. It's as if you are taking your facebook feed anger and directing it at me now that you are on an anonymous board.

Now this is the funny part. Do you understand that the government has finite resources, and that the "zero tolerance" policy (a purely political policy, if you care) is exhausting those resources by enforcing every single ticky tack misdemeanor entry without inspection so that other more serious offenses at the border cannot be enforced? Why would he do that? Gee- it's almost as though it's purely to separate families at the border to discourage asylum applicants like a f*king monster. Reminds me of when Sheriff Joe decided to start enforcing immigration laws- using your same impeccable argument that all laws must be enforced, by the way- and "forgot" to prosecute thousands of child sex abuse cases in Maricopa County. Whoops. And back to the subject I brought up: Trump is literally trying to circumvent due process for asylum applicants, and if he can't do it, he'll change the law to do it. Sounds normal.

Sure, you are right here. We do have finite resources. Enforcement is a choice, but unless you are for open borders, the matter is more complicated and nuanced than just calling other people monsters. This article seems like a reasonable overview of the matter to me. You hate Trump already, so you seem to view everything he does in the worst possible, most sinister way.

But hey, it all appears to be okay when Democrats do it, though.

Clinton:



Obama:

OH NOES!!! Yeah Obama's facetious comments are just a bit different than Trump instructing his zombies to kick protesters' asses and promising to pay their legal bills, and lamenting the 'old days' when protesters got beaten within an inch of their lives, etc. What a loser.

Trump shouldn't have said that, but the Democrats are plenty guilty here. They just send their SEIU goons to do their dirty work for them and beat up republican protesters.

Yes I do have a problem with it. And of COURSE it's in Trump's honor. If he had any honor for vets he would fix the shitshow that is Veteran's Affairs and not spend a dime on a stupid military parade that countries with shitty militaries have to put on to convince themselves they are powerful. I watched a military exercise in Guatemala and all I could think was "whoopdie fricking doo." We are America- let's act like we have some self-esteem. Why do we have to have a military parade? It's almost like Trump can't help but telegraph how minuscule his orange wee wee is.

It's not an either or. Trump appears to making some progress with the VA, and has made more of an effort than his predecessor, but there is far more to do here. I do think the VA should be getting our best efforts.

One last thing. I come here in peace. You don't have to get ragey to convince / have a discussion with me.

[Crockett]

I love you, Commando.

You love an echo chamber, too.

[Commando]

One last thing. I come here in peace. You don't have to get ragey to convince / have a discussion with me.

Well I don't. I don't care what you think your stance on immigration is, it is apparently heavily informed by conservative platform builders and they are dishonest. We don't have to have a discussion- you just need to know that you are under-informed. Do what you will with that information.

[LiveCoug]

Abolish ICE?

ICE will just be replaced by the next immigration enforcement department.

Funny how the dems are using the repub playbook.

Maybe they can rename it "NICE"? Would that placate democrats?

[Crockett]

Well I don't. I don't care what you think your stance on immigration is, it is apparently heavily informed by conservative platform builders and they are dishonest. We don't have to have a discussion- you just need to know that you are under-informed. Do what you will with that information.

Okay, good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

Well I don't. I don't care what you think your stance on immigration is, it is apparently heavily informed by conservative platform builders and they are dishonest. We don't have to have a discussion- you just need to know that you are under-informed. Do what you will with that information.

That reminds me of something you once said:

As long as you are positive that you "know" something, be specific about it or don't even mention it.