President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Uncle Ted]

lol that doesn't apply to arriving aliens. At least you're trying, though!

So if they are arriving aliens then they are free to go back where they came from, right? They are not being detained and they are not being separated from their families. And the liberals are spouting off sh*t as usual. Got it.

[Commando]

So if they are arriving aliens then they are free to go back where they came from, right? They are not being detained and they are not being separated from their families. And the liberals are spouting off sh*t as usual. Got it.

Good guess! No- they remain in detention and an immigration judge does not have jurisdiction to give them a bond. I think one of these times the facts will align with the arguments you want so desperately to make and when that happens BOY you'll be on a roll!!

[Uncle Ted]

Good guess! No- they remain in detention and an immigration judge does not have jurisdiction to give them a bond. I think one of these times the facts will align with the arguments you want so desperately to make and when that happens BOY you'll be on a roll!!

So arriving aliens are held without bail and can not leave under their own freewill... that is what you are telling me. No wonder they just jump the fence! Undocumented immigrants can at least post bail!

[cowboy]

Another couple of questions for Commando:

1) How many unattended minors present themselves at the border, and what process is in place to ensure their protection and care? Specifically, if it is a high volume event, it seems like DFS or whomever would be overwhelmed pretty easily. How do they place these kids and what do (or should they do) to protect and care for them in the meantime?

2) What proportion of families are split up at the border? Is it all of them, most of them, or some of them? If not all, how does ICE decided who draws the short straw and why?

There are so many different reports that the truth is really hard determine.

[BlueK]

Another couple of questions for Commando:

1) How many unattended minors present themselves at the border, and what process is in place to ensure their protection and care? Specifically, if it is a high volume event, it seems like DFS or whomever would be overwhelmed pretty easily. How do they place these kids and what do (or should they do) to protect and care for them in the meantime?

2) What proportion of families are split up at the border? Is it all of them, most of them, or some of them? If not all, how does ICE decided who draws the short straw and why?

There are so many different reports that the truth is really hard determine.

One thing I've learned about the politics of the immigration debate. There are only two possible solutions:

"open borders" with no oversight whatsoever over who comes in -- we like criminals the best!

Or

We don't want foreigners, period. Keep the doors to the country the hell shut. Hang a "closed" sign around the Statue of Liberty's neck. -- ok, maybe we'll allow in those who once won a gold medal or Nobel Prize or who speak Danish.

There is no room in the middle for anything else and it's the other side's fault.

Is that basically it? I think so.

It's turned into a messy divorce where to make it even more fun both parties are clinically insane.

[Uncle Ted]

Another couple of questions for Commando:

1) How many unattended minors present themselves at the border, and what process is in place to ensure their protection and care? Specifically, if it is a high volume event, it seems like DFS or whomever would be overwhelmed pretty easily. How do they place these kids and what do (or should they do) to protect and care for them in the meantime?

2) What proportion of families are split up at the border? Is it all of them, most of them, or some of them? If not all, how does ICE decided who draws the short straw and why?

There are so many different reports that the truth is really hard determine.

Given that only about 20,000 people each year are given U.S. Asylum each year (and who knows how many of those are minors) it seems like it is a long shot for these people... Why the hell did the dems vote for these immigration laws (not to mention go on the record as being against immigrants flooding the country)? Why didn't they come down on Obama for torturing those poor little kids at the borders? There must be some reason they are all up in arms now and not then? I can't see what it is. Someone please help me out here.

[BlueK]

Given that only about 20,000 people each year are given U.S. Asylum each year (and who knows how many of those are minors) it seems like it is a long shot for these people... Why the hell did the dems vote for these immigration laws (not to mention go on the record as being against immigrants flooding the country)? Why didn't they come down on Obama for torturing those poor little kids at the borders? There must be some reason they are all up in arms now and not then? I can't see what it is. Someone please help me out here.

The dems passed the current immigration laws? Are you sure? The current laws go back to the Reagan era with more Republican votes than dems. But it was a compromise.

[Uncle Ted]

The dems passed the current immigration laws? Are you sure?

Are you saying that all these dems were just saying sh*t and didn't vote the way they were talking? OK, given they are democrats I can believe they were just saying bullsh*t to get a vote. That's very believable given the source.

[BlueK]

Are you saying that all these dems were just saying sh*t and didn't vote the way they were talking? OK, given they are democrats I can believe they were just saying bullsh*t to get a vote. That's very believable given the source.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Try calming down. Go to a couple of real libertarian sites (cato.org and reason.com are good ones) and read some stuff to help restore your faith in humanity first then come back.

But except for Orrin Hatch I don't know if there is anyone else in Congress today who could have voted for the current immigration law since it was so long ago.

[Uncle Ted]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Try calming down. Go to a couple of real libertarian sites and read some stuff to help restore your faith in humanity first then come back. Except for Orrin Hatch I don't know if anyone in Congress today voted for the current law.

Oh come on, BK... You are saying the Dems in the link above were just bullshitting (i.e. Saying something worthless, deceptive, or insincere.) and didn't vote the way they campaigned. You can't understand that? If so, I have greatly overestimated your intelligence.

[BlueK]

Oh come on, BK... You are saying the Dems in the link above were just bullshitting (i.e. Saying something worthless, deceptive, or insincere.) and didn't vote the way they campaigned. You can't understand that? If so, I have greatly overestimated your intelligence.

voted on what? There hasn't been a change/vote on immigration law in close to 40 years.

So they've said they don't want illegal immigration. That's not the same thing as treating human beings like garbage at the border and talking like they are subhuman in our rhetoric.

[Uncle Ted]

voted on what? There hasn't been a vote on immigration law in 40 or so years.

So they've said they don't want illegal immigration. That's not the same thing as treating human beings like garbage at the border and talking like they are subhuman in our rhetoric.

Like they didn't want a wall... https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2006/s262

On October 26, 2006, U.S. President George W. Bush signed the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (Pub.L. 109–367) into law stating, “This bill will help protect the American people. This bill will make our borders more secure. It is an important step toward immigration reform."

There are a lot of interesting "yeas", including:

Obama, Barack
Schumer, Chuck
Clinton, Hillary
Boxer, Barbara
Feinstein, Dianne

You should do a couple minutes of google'ing before making a claim!

As for treating human beings like garbage, you should ask the ACLU about that... Apparently they was "widespread abuse" of children going on during the Obama administration that no one wants to talk about for some reason.

[Moliere]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Try calming down. Go to a couple of real libertarian sites (cato.org and reason.com are good ones) and read some stuff to help restore your faith in humanity first then come back.

But except for Orrin Hatch I don't know if there is anyone else in Congress today who could have voted for the current immigration law since it was so long ago.

Irony ruling?

[BlueK]

Irony ruling?

Well, today I am calm. :-) No references to fascism or anything like that.

[BlueK]

Like they didn't want a wall... https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2006/s262



There are a lot of interesting "yeas", including:

Obama, Barack
Schumer, Chuck
Clinton, Hillary
Boxer, Barbara
Feinstein, Dianne

You should do a couple minutes of google'ing before making a claim!

As for treating human beings like garbage, you should ask the ACLU about that... Apparently they was "widespread abuse" of children going on during the Obama administration that no one wants to talk about for some reason.

a fix the fence/put a bandaid on the problem may have been well meaning but it didn't work. It isn't the law that is the real problem which was passed 36 years ago. And what went wrong with that one was that it made it pretty darn hard for lower skilled laborers to enter legally. Just the fact that a few dems voted for some bandaid border security bill Bush pushed through means what? That they can never say anything about what's not working today?

Here's an analogy for you. Explain to me why it doesn't apply.

The zero tolerance war on drugs has gone on forever and had billions of dollars thrown at it, and yet it has not kept dangerous drugs out. Why not? Do we need even tougher laws? Would they even work? This is your quiz to see if you're still a libertarian.

Why are "tough" immigration laws going to do any better as long as there is a labor demand that immigrants can fill as Cowboy has eloquently explained?

Why is current Republican, I mean Trumpian policy so hell bent on keeping basically almost everyone out? Is there no possible middle ground? His own statements make it hard not to think it's mostly about him just not liking people from certain countries vs. others.

Finally, assuming he gets a change to immigration law he likes, it's only a matter of time before it combined with Trump's other dopey ideas around trade bring on a recession.