The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[BlueK]

Look, like the Chinese have outflanked Trump on trade, the Democrats are winning the political battle here. Their response to the crisis is to call Trump a racist and do nothing. That has served them well in the short term. Nobody wants to be a bad person, everyone is virtue signaling--even to the pollsters. You can hardly address this issue without issuing a statement that you don't support Trump. Whatever the polls are responding to is not reality. The democrats have created a narrative that suits them for winning the presidential election, or so they hope. And that narrative is comparing Trump to Hitler. That's not going to solve the problem and it won't last. We'll see what how the public reacts if they have to address real solutions.

Yeah, I get it. We'll see what happens. I agree that neither party is very good at doing anything but playing stupid politics. It's a flaw of the two party system.

[SeattleUte]

Whoa whoa whoa. You're telling me that immigration will continue to be a hot button issue regardless of the party in charge? In the United States of America? I don't know. Seems like a stretch.

if I were president I'd say grandfather rights for anyone who has been here over a year, and citizenship for anyone who has a job lined up. Would that get me votes? I bet not. The polls lie.

[Jarid in Cedar]

if I were president I'd say grandfather rights for anyone who has been here over a year, and citizenship for anyone who has a job lined up. Would that get me votes? I bet not. The polls lie.

It wouldn't garner votes, but it would be the best way to address the issue on multiple levels; especially humanitarian and economic

[wapiti]

The link to the market research I just posted indicates that right now at least the majority of Americans does support it. It's just hard to hear that voice when Trump and his crowd are screaming so loudly. But like this research shows, it's that very screaming that is pushing the rest of the country in the other direction. Sentiment among the majority is different than it was in 2008 or even 2016. The GOP got clobbered in the last election because Trump's take on immigrants was rejected in the districts that aren't gerrymandered to be deep red.

Completely solving the problem is probably too high of an expectation, depending on how you want to define that. But they can at least do a few things without that much trouble, like relief for the dreamers. Also, rescinding Trump's unilateral executive actions that established this no tolerance policy and created the camps wouldn't even require Congress. The new president could just wipe that out by him or herself since it is all based just on Trump's executive actions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr..._United_States

Clinton established the current process for immigrant detention in 1996. They have existed ever since. A dramatic increase in immigrants crossing the border and claiming asylum has overwhelmed the system. Trump executive orders had nothing to do this increase in asylum seekers and rescinding them will do nothing at all to solve the problem. Congress has to act. We need a complete overhaul the asylum system.

[SeattleUte]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr..._United_States

Clinton established the current process for immigrant detention in 1996. They have existed ever since. A dramatic increase in immigrants crossing the border and claiming asylum has overwhelmed the system. Trump executive orders had nothing to do this increase in asylum seekers and rescinding them will do nothing at all to solve the problem. Congress has to act. We need a complete overhaul the asylum system.

It's not going to happen. Ever. It's just a campaign issue. Paint trump as a fascist who's building concentration camps.

The other reason democrats really don't want more liberal immigration laws is that you can't have liberal immigration and a big welfare state. See Brexit.

[snowcat]

if I were president I'd say grandfather rights for anyone who has been here over a year, and citizenship for anyone who has a job lined up. Would that get me votes? I bet not. The polls lie.

You would get my vote.

[BlueK]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr..._United_States

Clinton established the current process for immigrant detention in 1996. They have existed ever since. A dramatic increase in immigrants crossing the border and claiming asylum has overwhelmed the system. Trump executive orders had nothing to do this increase in asylum seekers and rescinding them will do nothing at all to solve the problem. Congress has to act. We need a complete overhaul the asylum system.

Care to run this by Commando? Under current US law on the books, Asylum seekers are not supposed to be treated like illegals and don't have to be automatically locked up on arrival. That is something the next president could change.

[wapiti]

Care to run this by Commando? Under current US law on the books, Asylum seekers are not supposed to be treated like illegals and don't have to be automatically locked up on arrival. That is something the next president could change.

Which is why nearly all illegal border crossers simply claim asylum even if their reason for coming is classic economic immigration.

[BlueK]

Which is why nearly all illegal border crossers simply claim asylum even if their reason for coming is classic economic immigration.

I get that, not that economic immigration is this hugely sinister thing anyway, but that's another discussion. But the law should be followed even the president doesn't like it. Hire more judges to get their cases through faster. He doesn't want to do that.

[Moliere]

Seth Mouton is out.

Only 21 candidates remain.

[Uncle Ted]

Elizabeth Warren apologizes for heritage claim, woos Native American voters at forum

U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren offered a public apology Monday to Native Americans over her past claim to Indigenous heritage, directly tackling an area that's proved to be a big political liability.

"Like anyone who has been honest with themselves, I know I have made mistakes," the Massachusetts senator said at a forum on Native American issues in this pivotal early voting state.

"I am sorry for the harm I have caused."
[...]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/e...laim-1.5253585

Apology? We don't want no stink'n apologies... We want reparations, B*tch!

[Commando]

Both parties have ignored this problem and refused to work together to solve it for decades. From what I can tell, the democrats' solution is completely open borders and give everyone citizenship. That can't be what they really want, but it's all I can see from their rhetoric. As usual, it's all abstraction and aspiration. Like health care. It seems that any more the only Americans that solve any problem is the private sector.

Up here in Seattle in my crystal tower, I am very dovish about immigration. I agree with AOC minus the absurd comparisons to Nazi concentration camps. But I wonder if a majority Americans support that. I doubt it. So I really am skeptical that the democrats could possibly solve this problem. I think they're incapable of it. Immigration, of course, is way harder to tackle and solve in a responsible way than Guantanamo, which the democrats were not up to solving after all the pious virtue signaling and condemnation.

You know... the humanitarian 'crisis' (I put it in quotations because I see an actual crisis as something that's unforeseen and not on purpose) was brought on by a sudden unilateral change in DHS policies. Resources from every corner of government have been reapportioned to ICE and CBP to turbo boost the crisis. For example, USCIS processes that took from 4-6 months- say applying for citizenship- now take about 2 years because of the urgent need to arrest and detain (at a dear $$$ per capita) folks with zero criminal contacts and minimal negative immigration history, like a visa overstay or an uninspected crossing. I see a lot of fake handwringing about the suffering the migrants are experiencing and Trump even fake signed a fake executive order 'ending' child separation, which was a direct, targeted result of Sessions' zero-tolerance policy (bringing full prosecution against misdemeanor border crossings- which was never done before as a matter of policy). Under every administration past, there was a priority system in place on where to expend CBP/ICE's limited resources-- and they are limited, by the way. Under Obama, convicted felons, recent entrants, and extreme misdemeanants (DV, DUIs) were numbers 1,2, and 3 for enforcement. Trump wiped away that system and everybody is fair game. Abuelitas in church, kids in ambulances-- everybody. The dickheads at CBP even posted "we will be suspending normal enforcement operations at area hospitals at this time" in the wake of the El Paso shooting as though that was some gesture of magnanimity. I predict once sanity resumes control, things will go back to the shitty way they were under Obama, which is about 3x less shitty than they are now. You are right that we (as a country) have zero incentive to push immigration reform, other than our own morality and humanity, which will lose to capitalism in the political arena.

In contrast to what you may be thinking, I bet MOST Americans are in favor of immigration reform. That those who have been living here without any lawful immigrant status can pay a fine, do their back taxes, and attain lawful permanent or conditional residency. Almost nobody I've talked to is against that- even the most ardent MAGAt. The only people that are against that are the nationalists and the extremists in the White House in Trump's ear (Stephen Miller, et al). It's hard to paint our immigration situation in the appropriate way when asylum seekers are being framed by our president as 'invaders' and criminals. I think if Trump was a man of character or at least a better judge of character that would be a gimme. Over 85% of Americans support ratifying DACA and Trump is trying to end it in court-- that shows you where his head is at, risking the politically safe, humanitarian option in favor of the nationalist, nativist policy.

[Commando]

Care to run this by Commando? Under current US law on the books, Asylum seekers are not supposed to be treated like illegals and don't have to be automatically locked up on arrival. That is something the next president could change.

You don't need to run that by me to know that about everything he said was laughably wrong. Jeff Sessions and his private prison industry buddies are the people to talk to about child separation and the crazy detention mess going on. Mandatory detention only applies to those who present themselves at the border to apply for asylum, and from there ICE can 'parole' them into the country on a bond or on their own recognizance on their discretion. Needless to say, the guys in charge of ICE at the top don't let them do that too often because apparently we have limitless resources when it comes to the private prison industry. Those that get across the border and are then apprehended shortly thereafter are not subject to mandatory detention and ICE can set a bond or deny it and the person has the right to request a bond redetermination from an immigration judge.

Last week, ICE set a bond for an asylum seeker coming here across the Mexican border from Romania at... $45,000.00. GTFOH.

[Commando]

if I were president I'd say grandfather rights for anyone who has been here over a year, and citizenship for anyone who has a job lined up. Would that get me votes? I bet not. The polls lie.

That would be the right thing to do, but we loves our slave labor in this here country.

[wapiti]

You don't need to run that by me to know that about everything he said was laughably wrong. Jeff Sessions and his private prison industry buddies are the people to talk to about child separation and the crazy detention mess going on. Mandatory detention only applies to those who present themselves at the border to apply for asylum, and from there ICE can 'parole' them into the country on a bond or on their own recognizance on their discretion. Needless to say, the guys in charge of ICE at the top don't let them do that too often because apparently we have limitless resources when it comes to the private prison industry. Those that get across the border and are then apprehended shortly thereafter are not subject to mandatory detention and ICE can set a bond or deny it and the person has the right to request a bond redetermination from an immigration judge.

Last week, ICE set a bond for an asylum seeker coming here across the Mexican border from Romania at... $45,000.00. GTFOH.

Did you learn all of this from Rachel Maddow?