On abortion

[Moliere]

The nice thing about morals is that they are different for everyone. I find it moral wrong to abort a fetus solely because it might have Down’s syndrome. I suspect many on the left disagree with me. We both see each other as morally wrong.

[Donuthole]

I don’t understand this comment. Care to make your point less vague?

I speak SU. Allow me to translate:

Statement: Considering who may not get abortions if Roe is overturned, it seem incongruous that conservative Republicans want that. This is about more than or other than saving babies.

Translation: Republicans are racists and hate black people; I'm surprised Republicans want to stop blacks from killing their own fetuses.

[All-American]

I speak SU. Allow me to translate:

Democrats would suggest that it is about controlling women.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Interesting.

Embedded Tweet

[Clark Addison]

Interesting.

Embedded Tweet

Problem solved!

[SeattleUte]

Democrats would suggest that it is about controlling women.

For most people it will still be relatively easy to get an abortion after Roe is overturned. Only the very poor and/or dysfunctional who have no help will not get one if it's not legal in their state. It's not hard to cross state borders.

Moreover, the need for abortions has practically evaporated among most people because of effective contraception including morning after pill. The number of abortions have been crashing except among the dysfunctional and poor and some religious who reject contraception.

As much as conservatives loath progress, it's technological progress that has largely solved this awful problem. If there's not a massive outcry against overturning Roe, and I'm not convinced there will be, these will be the reasons.

[SeattleUte]

I speak SU. Allow me to translate:

Not just Black people. But yes, Blacks are disproportionately poor. Persuasive studies have shown that crime crashed once abortion became widely available. There's a very controversial couple of Freakonomics episodes on this.

These days Roe only protects the lowest rung of society. That's all it's about at this point.

But as for what really motivates Republicans, probably sexual morality and just anti-progress.

[Jeff Lebowski]

But as for what really motivates Republicans, probably sexual morality and just anti-progress.

Couldn't possibly be sanctity of life, right?

[All-American]

Couldn't possibly be sanctity of life, right?

Oh, but that's so boring. Besides, we all know that protecting an interest group of which you are not a member is never really the true reason for supporting an extension of protection. Abolitionists are less concerned about the plight of slaves than about people getting rich off of slave labor. Less concern about women and minorities than about increasing your electorate base. Etc., etc., etc.

About five doses of cynicism too many for my tastes, honestly, and I'm a pretty cynical person.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Great article by Alexandra Desanctis on how most Americans don't understand Roe v. Wade.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...bout-abortion/

The public lack of knowledge about Roe — and its conflict with actual public opinion on abortion — was captured well by a Fox News poll last September, which found that 65 percent of Americans said they oppose reversing Roe. But, absurdly, the same survey found that respondents were perfectly split on whether abortion should be legal, tied at 49 percent. A substantial number of Americans, in other words, both want abortion to be illegal and want to preserve jurisprudence making it essentially impossible to prohibit abortion. This outcome was possible only because a sizable percentage of the population doesn’t know that abortion can’t be regulated at all until Roe is gone.

Meanwhile, polls that ask Americans for their views on specific abortion policies tend to find that most Americans disagree with the status quo created by the Court in Roe and Doe v. Bolton and bolstered in Casey — namely, that abortion must be legal across all 50 states, for nearly any reason, and at nearly any time in pregnancy.

For instance, a Gallup poll from a few years back found that only 28 percent of Americans favor allowing abortion in the second trimester, and only 13 percent of Americans favor allowing it in the last three months of pregnancy — compared to 60 percent who would allow it in the first trimester.

[SeattleUte]

Couldn't possibly be sanctity of life, right?

What I'm saying is that I don't believe conservatives value the lives that are being aborted now and won't be still aborted if Roe is overturned. That is the very irony I'm raising.

So don's sanctity of life me, Reverend.

[Northwestcoug]

Whoa. Wait a minute. Are you seriously under the impression that abortions for convenience are "very rare"?

Yeah I suspect your and my versions of ‘convenience’ are quite different. But let’s first stipulate you said abort ‘a viable fetus because it’s inconvenient.’ In my moral spectrum, yeah it represents a ‘wrong’ but shouldn’t be outlawed.

I presume your version of ‘convenience’ includes the mental health of the woman, any unwanted teenage pregnancy, or really just the wishes of a woman who otherwise isn’t ready to have a baby. So yeah I’m sure the majority of abortions fall under this distinction of ‘convenience’. And I’m ok with that. Once the fetus is viable, it gets murkier for me.

[SeattleUte]

Great article by Alexandra Desanctis on how most Americans don't understand Roe v. Wade.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...bout-abortion/

The Supreme Court decisions that generate the most controversy often have little practical effect. Like whether a football coach can pray on the field after a football game if his players are not required to participate.

Everybody needs to calm down. We are not on the verge of a Christian takeover. Christianity is nearly extinct compared to its historical power and wealth.

[Applejack]

For most people it will still be relatively easy to get an abortion after Roe is overturned. Only the very poor and/or dysfunctional who have no help will not get one if it's not legal in their state. It's not hard to cross state borders.

Moreover, the need for abortions has practically evaporated among most people because of effective contraception including morning after pill. The number of abortions have been crashing except among the dysfunctional and poor and some religious who reject contraception.

As much as conservatives loath progress, it's technological progress that has largely solved this awful problem. If there's not a massive outcry against overturning Roe, and I'm not convinced there will be, these will be the reasons.

Some of these crazy states (eg, Texas) are making it illegal to send the morning after pill thru the mail. The thing Roe was good for was that it kept the crazy states (eg, Texas) in check on their crazy. Now there will be a proliferation of cruel bills that are just to score political points.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah I suspect your and my versions of ‘convenience’ are quite different. But let’s first stipulate you said abort ‘a viable fetus because it’s inconvenient.’ In my moral spectrum, yeah it represents a ‘wrong’ but shouldn’t be outlawed.

I presume your version of ‘convenience’ includes the mental health of the woman, any unwanted teenage pregnancy, or really just the wishes of a woman who otherwise isn’t ready to have a baby. So yeah I’m sure the majority of abortions fall under this distinction of ‘convenience’. And I’m ok with that. Once the fetus is viable, it gets murkier for me.

If you are OK with abortions for any reason, you might want to be a little more circumspect about labelling your idealogical opponents as "morally reprehensible".