Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[Moliere]

The WoW is also mostly wrong.

Which one? The one written in the D&C or the one preached in the church today?

[KillerDog]

What about cigarettes? I thought the WoW said absolutely no cigarettes. I'll give it that much for being right.

LOL! Is it the tobacco or the tar? Remember, I'm the guy in "Thank You For Smoking"

[Topper]

Extremely complex. I hate the extreme over-simplification of complex political issues.

In this area it is not nearly so complex.
You have statists who have moved away from frontier roots, who fear them because they read about urban violence related to them, and believe society would be "safer" without them.

You have the traditions, the symbol of personal liberty they represent, and the functional and human right of self-defense which they facilitate. Eventually the urban statist tendency will likely prevail as we gravitate to more of a nanny state. The only Question is time frame. Personal liberties will be sacrificed on the alter of the guise of security.

To me, this transition will eradicate the Lockean foundation for which preservation of personal liberties is essential.

[Topper]

We are one appointment by Hillary from reversing Heller and McDonald to transforming the right into a privilege for the wealthy or politically powerful. Both of those decisions were 5-4 decisions.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The LDS Church, as always, is just flat-assed wrong. I've never seen an organization be wrong about everything like the LDS Church. It's wrong about how the world started, how it will end, wrong about Indians and blacks, wrong about women, wrong about gays, wrong about oral sex and so on -- comically, ludicrously wrong about everything.

They also teach us to turn the other cheek and love asshats like you. I hope they aren't wrong about that!

[SeattleUte]

They also teach us to turn the other cheek and love asshats like you. I hope they aren't wrong about that!

It doesn't teach you that. You do that in spite of it.

[eldiente]

The LDS Church, as always, is just flat-assed wrong. I've never seen an organization be wrong about everything like the LDS Church. It's wrong about how the world started, how it will end, wrong about Indians and blacks, wrong about women, wrong about gays, wrong about oral sex and so on -- comically, ludicrously wrong about everything.

wrong

[Commando]

The WoW is also mostly wrong.

What do you mean, wrong? What do you imagine is the purpose of it?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Utah files its last written brief before making oral arguments.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...ampaign=buffer

Same-sex relationships, it claims, are primarily about "personal individual interests" and an "adult-centric" lifestyle and allowing such couples to marry would have multiple repercussions.

Those risks include: fewer and shorter heterosexual marriages; an increase in fatherless and motherless parenting; reduced birth rates and more out-of-wedlock births; less "self-sacrificing" by heterosexual fathers; and increased social strife, the state said.

It also would communicate that adult interests are paramount, that neither gender nor biology matter and would delink procreation from marriage, according to the brief.

The resulting message would be that there is no reason to get married to have children, the state said, and "may lead a busy or irresponsible biological parent (usually a father, but sometimes a mother), to assume that, so long as someone is taking care of the child, there is no need for him or her to be involved."

As for impact on hetero men, here is actual quote from the brief:

"Redefining marriage in genderless terms would signal to heterosexual men, especially, that they are optional, not central to the well-being of their children, and would thus tend to alienate some heterosexual men from the institution of marriage.

Abandoning the gendered definition of marriage would thus likely result in fewer and shorter marriages of heterosexuals, less parenting by heterosexual fathers, more conception by heterosexuals outside of marriage, and less self- sacrificing by heterosexual fathers."

You get the picture. Dogs and cats living together, yada yada yada...

Then there was this whopper:

Attorneys for the state also argued that no one is depriving homosexual citizens of access to marriage; rather, such individuals could but "for good reason" choose not to exercise that right.

"Utah law allows every person, regardless of sexual orientation or gender, to marry a person of the opposite sex," the state said, adding in a footnote that Utah "is not trying to punish nor attempting to change anyone’s sexual orientation."

There you go, gay people. What's the problem?

[TripletDaddy]

lol. these are the arguments LA Ute was making in California few years ago.

[Northwestcoug]

Utah files its last written brief before making oral arguments.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...ampaign=buffer



As for impact on hetero men, here is actual quote from the brief:



You get the picture. Dogs and cats living together, yada yada yada...

Then there was this whopper:



There you go, gay people. What's the problem?

I'm convinced.
I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like Utah taxpayers are getting their money's worth with these arguments...

[Pheidippides]

Utah files its last written brief before making oral arguments.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...ampaign=buffer



As for impact on hetero men, here is actual quote from the brief:



You get the picture. Dogs and cats living together, yada yada yada...

Then there was this whopper:



There you go, gay people. What's the problem?

Unreal. Not only are they making ridiculous arguments, they are managing to sound like a bunch of men invoking male privilege too. SHW's comment when I read these to her: "sound like they were written by a bunch of old men."

Does the appellee just rest after the state's oral arguments?

[Pheidippides]

This magnificent gem in one of the footnotes made me literally laugh out loud:

Plaintiffs say (at 3) that Utah’s marriage laws “leav[e] them with no way topublicly express or formalize their commitment to one another or assume ‘the
duties and responsibilities that are an essential part of married life and that
they . . . would be honored to accept.’” But five of the 25 largest faith
communities in Utah officially accept same-sex unions

[SoCalCoug]

This is the sort of crap that gives lawyers bad names. Seriously.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Utah's same-sex marriage case to be heard in a few days. A series of pro-marriage equality ads are running on local tv. Here is one featuring retired BYU prof William Bradshaw and his wife: