Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[smokymountainrain]

BOOM! Judge Shelby denies the motion.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Update:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...-stay.html.csp

[Jeff Lebowski]

Utah state AG:

"There is a great irony in the fact that for Utah to be allowed to become a state, it was compelled by the federal government to define marriage as a union between one man and one woman."

Is this a case of double irony?

[YOhio]

I wonder how the state would have done had it not elected a corrupt Attorney General who left the office in shambles. I doubt they would have faired much better, but it does make the whole thing that much more delicious.

[cougjunkie]

Update:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...-stay.html.csp

Cache County might be further behind the times than Utah County. The clerks office was closed until further notice and they released the following statement:

to sort out the legal issues and confusion created in the wake of Judge Shelby’s opinion

I love how they call it his "opinion".

[TripletDaddy]

Thousands of gay couples in Cache County are probably pissed right now.

[cougjunkie]

Thousands of gay couples in Cache County are probably pissed right now.

The link JL posted was great:

Hundreds in Salt Lake County were lined up wrapping around two floors, the mayor in Park City was on hand at 8am to officiate marriages, Uintah county had 3 people apply for marriage licenses however they were not sure if they were same-sex couples or not. Box Elder has armed guards in front of the clerks office to keep gays away, Utah County has turned 2 people away.

The reactions are funny.

[smokymountainrain]

The link JL posted was great:

Hundreds in Salt Lake County were lined up wrapping around two floors, the mayor in Park City was on hand at 8am to officiate marriages, Uintah county had 3 people apply for marriage licenses however they were not sure if they were same-sex couples or not. Box Elder has armed guards in front of the clerks office to keep gays away, Utah County has turned 2 people away.

lol.

[scottie]

in fairness, there were directives coming from the very top down the chain. This smear campaign forced a lot of otherwise good people/leaders into positions that were uncomfortable or even undesirable. It became such a focal point for awhile at Church that it became much of what we even talked about at all times, made even more combative by inappropriately hostile responses from some of the more militant pro-gay marriage demonstrators. I had several close family friends tell me in confidence that they felt really uncomfortable speaking such things from the pulpit in a position of authority, but that they felt pressure to do so and feared discipline if they spoke their conscience.

Church should not have been a place to discuss "prop 8" as political legislation and strategy....especially when it came to passing out sign up sheets for people to go door to door, stand on freeway overpasses or street corners with signs, or blanketing parking lots. All of these things, and more, happened at Church. I hated all of it, especially the pious pressure tactics put on people that were opposed to such antics. In retrospect, if I were one of the LA Ute types that were chosen to head up either PR or other messaging for the Church, I would feel frustrated and embarrassed for having participated in it. The social arguments being championed as "support" for Prop 8 were ridiculous even then, but downright embarrassing today.

My wife donated because we were asked to do so and she really felt a conviction to "protect marriage." She and I discussed it and decided mutually that any donation would be in her name only. When she explained to our Bishop we explained that I was abstaining and was opposed. He understood and thanked us anyway.

Several years later and my wife's stance on the issue has changed entirely. Recent comments by Church leadership about similarly thorny social issues have only reinforced our feeling that we are on the right side of the line on this matter. In the years to come, there will be lots of people that will deny their own participation in the bizarre Prop 8 antics coordinated by local and national Church leadership, much like you can't find a single person today willing to admit to supporting the priesthood ban. But I can say with a clear conscience that I was opposed and did nothing to support it. I voted against it. And I am hopeful that we wont see anymore political action campaigns at Church again.

Good stuff there, thanks for sharing.

[Moliere]

I'm happy to say that I did not vote for Amendemnet 3. I could have voted for it and I'm sure MJ did, but it's nice to know I didn't. My brother also didn't vote for it and he got a big lecture from his inlaws, who are from Cali, probably since it came after prop 22 or whatever Cali did before prop 8.

[Topper]

In true Christmas spirit, I'd like to apologize to any lawyer out there that I might have offended (except All-American).

Now could someone please tell me how conservative the 10th circuit is? I've been trying to figure it out, and I'm befuddled. All I know at this point is that there are 5 republican appointees, 5 democrat appointees, and 2 open seats that have been blocked by republican senators.

You don't need to apologize to lawyers, as you insulted medicine and science by your rant. You may understand your area of expertise very well, I don't know or have the insights necessary to scrutinize that. However, you lack a broader perspective, your Hinckley scholarship notwithstanding. You do possess the God complex sometimes contracted by issuance of the MD degree.

Each profession has its own set of failings, parameters of expertise and purpose. Law is used by society to regulate its conduct using principles available to it to discern "social" truth. It is not designed to pursue scientific or even moral truth. Patent law is very complex as it endeavors to regulate inventions, processes and devices in light of novelty and addition by the inventor. The gene patents are even more difficult because discovered scientific processes are difficult for the law to deal with. Society has an interest in monetizing anything which can be put into the commerce. On the flip side, matters in the public domain don't receive protection.

All America probably understands the complexity of the legal struggles to address these concerns very well. These are matters of social and economic concerns which are the purview of the law.

[old_gregg]

I love how they call it his "opinion".

laughing at you, not with you

[cougjunkie]

laughing at you, not with you

I really shouldn't have to explain my jokes to you, I know what a legal opinion is. I just found it funny they were the only county using that term in the official statement and close the entire clerks office. Nobody has reacted that harshly and the way they used opinion seemed funny to me.

[USUC]

Anyone want to venture over to CB and gauge the reaction? I can only imagine...

I took your challenge and I see nothing on Cougarboard through the first 3 pages. Did they delete it all? I did learn that Johnny Ragin has left the Cal program.

I just put 2 and 2 together and figured out that political discussions have limited access on CB. I'm was a little embarrassed by my comment until i reminded myself that not being familiar with/never being a member of CB is not something to be ashamed of.

[CardiacCoug]

Not sure why the county clerks think they have authority to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Judge Shelby's decision declared a Utah Constitutional Amendment that prohibited the legislature from making laws allowing same sex marriage unconstitutional. He did not issue any injunction (there wasn't one sought). The only thing Judge Shelby's decision does is lift the ban on the legislature's right to grant marriage rights to same sex couples. The County Clerks' authority to issue marriage licenses comes from statute, and the statute clearly prohibits the issuance of a license to same-sex couples. The County Clerks' that are issuing licenses are doing so without any authority (Judge Shelby cannot give them authority). The officials marrying the couples are also doing so without authority. The statute clearly says that these marriages are prohibited and void. Not sure what the state is asking Judge Shelby to stay, because there is nothing in the order that requires the county clerks to grant marriage licenses, or gives them the authority to do so. The proper move for the state is to seek an injunction against the county clerks and a declaration that those marriages that have taken place are null and void from the state courts.

Oh brother.