Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[Nakoma]

That's about as far as I went before laughing again.

No, Sooner REALLY reads legal opinions ALL the time. I bet he reads them when he stays at the Holiday Inn Express. Show the man some respect on his legal prowess.

[SoCalCoug]

Now I'd like to go on record saying that I like and respect plenty of lawyers (SeattleUte, Nikuman, Levin).

Aww, crap. I didn't make the cut.

But lawyers are generally not in the business of seeking truth. They advocate for their side and seek favorable opinions for their clients. It is not about truth. It's not even really about genuine reasoning. Very frequently, attempts are made to persuade on emotional basis rather than on genuine fact. It is so far from science that it isn't funny. It is an anti-science.

Agree to a degree. There are areas of law, such as appellate law, where you must look at both sides as objectively as possible and though you are certainly an advocate, you must recognize the strengths and weaknesses of both sides. Emotional appeals do not work in appellate law like they do with juries.

[Topper]

Aww, crap. I didn't make the cut.



Agree to a degree. There are areas of law, such as appellate law, where you must look at both sides as objectively as possible and though you are certainly an advocate, you must recognize the strengths and weaknesses of both sides. Emotional appeals do not work in appellate law like they do with juries.

It was a troll. Sooner is brighter than that.

Medicine employs principles of science coupled with an art.
Law employs logic and psychology. It requires a balance of norms and hopeful expectations.

[Uncle Ted]

The Deseret News editorial opinion... (Has this already been posted?)

In our opinion: Judicial tyranny

The essence of judicial tyranny is when a single, unelected federal judge declares the laws and constitution of an entire state null and void with an opinion clothed in the barest of legal precedent.


Late on Friday afternoon, U.S. District Judge Robert J. Shelby overstepped judicial bounds, ignored the weight of settled precedent and insulted Utah’s electorate by striking down Amendment 3 to Utah’s Constitution, the provision that defines marriage as between one man and one woman.
[...]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ny.html?pg=all

[Nakoma]

SoonerCoug's Church resume:

1) Seminary graduate and teachers quorum president.
2) Invited to speak in stake conference as a teenager. I was asked to choose a topic from the For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet. I thought about speaking on masturbation but instead chose friendship.
3) Gordon B. Hinckley scholar.
4) Great nephew of Spencer W. Kimball and 1st cousin once removed of President Eyring.
5) Served a 2-year mission but never intentionally converted anyone. I did inadvertently convert a few.
6) Assistant to the president for 6 months.
7) Elders quorum presidency in 2003.
8) Primary pianist for about a decade.

. . .

Meh. It's an okay apostate resume. But, I have to say, you're no William E. McLellan or William Law. Those guys had awesome apostate resumes. An apostle and a member of the FP. But, admittedly, you're close with those six months as an A.P. Too bad you didn't stick it out longer before checking out. You might have been able to add high councilor or maybe bishopric counselor to your list of pre-apostate bona-fides.

[Topper]

Meh. It's an okay apostate resume. But, I have to say, you're no William E. McLellan or William Law. Those guys had awesome apostate resumes. An apostle and a member of the FP. But, admittedly, you're close with those six months as an A.P. Too bad you didn't stick it out longer before checking out. You might have been able to add high councilor or maybe bishopric counselor to your list of pre-apostate bona-fides.

Very boring. Being AP was the key to his apostasy.

In short, he was active as a child due to parents and an apostate once he got home. Yawn.

[smokymountainrain]

The Deseret News editorial opinion... (Has this already been posted?)


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ny.html?pg=all

As somebody who is pro gay marriage and knows very little about the law, on an elementary level, it does indeed seem strange to me that one unelected federal judge can wield so much power over an entire state. Also interesting that a conservative like Mike Lee wholeheartedly supported his appointment. Makes me wonder how Mike Lee feels now.

[Pheidippides]

As somebody who is pro gay marriage and knows very little about the law, on an elementary level, it does indeed seem strange to me that one unelected federal judge can wield so much power over an entire state. Also interesting that a conservative like Mike Lee wholeheartedly supported his appointment. Makes me wonder how Mike Lee feels now.

I haven't read the entire opinion, or really very much of it, so take this with a boulder of salt. That said, my general guess - or one of them - is that the judge is privately pro gay marriage, sees the trend in the country, knows he's going to get appealed, and frankly wants to get this in front of the SC. That's one possibility.

Does anybody know his religious affiliation? He practiced in Utah for a long time and was recommended by Hatch....

[ERCougar]

It was a troll. Sooner is brighter than that.

Medicine employs principles of science coupled with an art.
Law employs logic and psychology. It requires a balance of norms and hopeful expectations.

Agree. It's silly to pretend that scientists are somehow morally superior to attorneys because they are more objective. Science doesn't have the tools do answer the questions attorneys deal with.

I have no problem with attorneys who realize they are playing a role in a system, a game that while it may not be perfect, is probably the best possible system to arrive at 'justice'. I think good attorneys realize this, and better than the general public. A few don't, however. Those might be the ones sooner is referring to.

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[Jeff Lebowski]

So if Prop 8 was "our Gettysburg" for gay marriage foes, gay marriages being performed in Utah is the end of the Siege of Petersburg. Grant has patiently and methodically ground Lee to a pulp and Sherman has completed his march to the sea. Except for some mop-up action and a few skirmishes, this war is over and done.

[All-American]

As somebody who is pro gay marriage and knows very little about the law, on an elementary level, it does indeed seem strange to me that one unelected federal judge can wield so much power over an entire state.

He doesn't.

[Pheidippides]

So if Prop 8 was "our Gettysburg" for gay marriage foes, gay marriages being performed in Utah is the end of the Siege of Petersburg. Grant has patiently and methodically ground Lee to a pulp and Sherman has completed his march to the sea. Except for some mop-up action and a few skirmishes, this war is over and done.

Prop 8 was worse than Gettysburg. If not for Prop 8, a fair number of heterosexual people would still not care about the issue. Before Prop 8, my wife and I were both against hay marriage just because we always had been, without much thought. But once we had to start actually looking at the issue for once because of Mormon involvement in prop 8, we changed almost overnight. I know a lot of people like that.

[ERCougar]

He doesn't.

I agree, but practically speaking, suppose this is overturned--do you think they can really go back and annul all of the marriages performed in the interim?

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[All-American]

I agree, but practically speaking, suppose this is overturned--do you think they can really go back and annul all of the marriages performed in the interim?

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Of course they could. If Utah never had the authority under its constitution to recognize the marriage in the first place, marriages performed under the mistaken impression that it could wouldn't be valid. This is not like California, whose laws permitted same-sex marriage prior to its constitutional amendment reversing course.

Wouldn't hold my breath, though. If the tenth circuit doesn't affirm, SCOTUS probably will.

[ERCougar]

http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/arc...-sex-marriage/

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