Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[Pelado]

Not only gay and unmarried, but active Mormon as well.

I wonder if it was Bateman stiffing him on a tip that turned him gay

Didn't know Bateman swung that way.

[Moliere]

Didn't know Bateman swung that way.

you only got half the joke

[Pelado]

you only got half the joke

Sounded like Snider got the other half.

[UVACoug]

I think people that prefer to refer to themselves as experiencing same-sex attraction have good reasons for doing so. Almost all (with the exception of Shaka's "friend") of those people are Mormons and use the term SSA because they have heard Church leaders use it and suggest that it is more accurate. I understand the arguments for it and agree with a lot of them. Despite what some here claim, many people will assume that you are sexually active if you refer to yourself as being gay. I've talked to people that believe you can't be considered "gay" unless you have had sex with a member of the same sex. Are those people stupid? Probably. But they exist.

I know there are a lot of people that like to attach some kind of sinister intent to everything the Church does, but I don't think that is the case here at all. In fact, when I was first beginning to accept the fact that I was gay (or SSA), I think the use of the term really helped me to accept who I was at the time. I realize that many of you don't have an orthodox belief in the truth claims of the Church (or any belief in them at all). That's fine, but I do. I believe them sincerely and strongly. Understanding the moral distinction between sexual attraction and sexual behavior really helped me to reconcile who I was with what I sincerely believe. I realize that the distinction is pretty obvious, but when I was first coming to terms with my sexual orientation it was pretty confusing and talks from Elder Oaks and others that used the term same-sex attraction really helped. I don't think I am alone. If using a weird phrase helps closeted gay Mormons come to terms with their sexuality, then I don't think that is a bad thing at all.

On the other hand, I realize that the term is often used to try to distinguish between "good people who deal with same-sex attraction" and "bad gays." I got the impression that that message was being sent a little bit during the TLC show (especially by the one woman who said she got upset when people referred to her husband as "gay"). This type of use is self-righteous, at best. One of the things that bothers me the most about Church culture is this need for people to make themselves look righteous and better than everyone else. For that reason, I mostly try to avoid the term in most settings.

I also think, however, that many people (not all) who "get offended" by the term are not really getting offended by the term, but are instead using the term as a way to attack the Church and gay Mormons who decide not to have gay sex. There is a growing sentiment among certain parts of the gay-activist community that being gay and choosing not to have gay sex for religious or other reasons is some kind of hate crime. All you have to do is look at how some of these organizations reacted to the TLC show (which I didn't like, by the way). It was vitriolic. To these kind of people, the term "same-sex attraction" is a weird phrase that they can now use to mock and ridicule people who choose to follow the tenets of their religion. Like JL said, the phrase is weird and mostly unique to Mormons. I'm not sure that is a very good reason to deride people who use it.

[Joe Public]

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[byu71]

I think people that prefer to refer to themselves as experiencing same-sex attraction have good reasons for doing so. Almost all (with the exception of Shaka's "friend") of those people are Mormons and use the term SSA because they have heard Church leaders use it and suggest that it is more accurate. I understand the arguments for it and agree with a lot of them. Despite what some here claim, many people will assume that you are sexually active if you refer to yourself as being gay. I've talked to people that believe you can't be considered "gay" unless you have had sex with a member of the same sex. Are those people stupid? Probably. But they exist.

I know there are a lot of people that like to attach some kind of sinister intent to everything the Church does, but I don't think that is the case here at all. In fact, when I was first beginning to accept the fact that I was gay (or SSA), I think the use of the term really helped me to accept who I was at the time. I realize that many of you don't have an orthodox belief in the truth claims of the Church (or any belief in them at all). That's fine, but I do. I believe them sincerely and strongly. Understanding the moral distinction between sexual attraction and sexual behavior really helped me to reconcile who I was with what I sincerely believe. I realize that the distinction is pretty obvious, but when I was first coming to terms with my sexual orientation it was pretty confusing and talks from Elder Oaks and others that used the term same-sex attraction really helped. I don't think I am alone. If using a weird phrase helps closeted gay Mormons come to terms with their sexuality, then I don't think that is a bad thing at all.

On the other hand, I realize that the term is often used to try to distinguish between "good people who deal with same-sex attraction" and "bad gays." I got the impression that that message was being sent a little bit during the TLC show (especially by the one woman who said she got upset when people referred to her husband as "gay"). This type of use is self-righteous, at best. One of the things that bothers me the most about Church culture is this need for people to make themselves look righteous and better than everyone else. For that reason, I mostly try to avoid the term in most settings.

I also think, however, that many people (not all) who "get offended" by the term are not really getting offended by the term, but are instead using the term as a way to attack the Church and gay Mormons who decide not to have gay sex. There is a growing sentiment among certain parts of the gay-activist community that being gay and choosing not to have gay sex for religious or other reasons is some kind of hate crime. All you have to do is look at how some of these organizations reacted to the TLC show (which I didn't like, by the way). It was vitriolic. To these kind of people, the term "same-sex attraction" is a weird phrase that they can now use to mock and ridicule people who choose to follow the tenets of their religion. Like JL said, the phrase is weird and mostly unique to Mormons. I'm not sure that is a very good reason to deride people who use it.

I am also in the camp that doesn't see church leaders as sinister. Perhaps they are naive as to what is acceptable terminology and what isn't.

When I hear leaders using the term, I just assume they also have come to the conclusion and accepted that same sex attraction is a behavior one is born with and not learned. I would hope even BKP has come to that conclusion.

Then again I have always been one who feels fine disagreeing with the brethern without needing to also lay some character flaw on them to justify disagreeing with them.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Applejack]

I think people that prefer to refer to themselves as experiencing same-sex attraction have good reasons for doing so. Almost all (with the exception of Shaka's "friend") of those people are Mormons and use the term SSA because they have heard Church leaders use it and suggest that it is more accurate. I understand the arguments for it and agree with a lot of them. Despite what some here claim, many people will assume that you are sexually active if you refer to yourself as being gay. I've talked to people that believe you can't be considered "gay" unless you have had sex with a member of the same sex. Are those people stupid? Probably. But they exist.

I know there are a lot of people that like to attach some kind of sinister intent to everything the Church does, but I don't think that is the case here at all. In fact, when I was first beginning to accept the fact that I was gay (or SSA), I think the use of the term really helped me to accept who I was at the time. I realize that many of you don't have an orthodox belief in the truth claims of the Church (or any belief in them at all). That's fine, but I do. I believe them sincerely and strongly. Understanding the moral distinction between sexual attraction and sexual behavior really helped me to reconcile who I was with what I sincerely believe. I realize that the distinction is pretty obvious, but when I was first coming to terms with my sexual orientation it was pretty confusing and talks from Elder Oaks and others that used the term same-sex attraction really helped. I don't think I am alone. If using a weird phrase helps closeted gay Mormons come to terms with their sexuality, then I don't think that is a bad thing at all.

On the other hand, I realize that the term is often used to try to distinguish between "good people who deal with same-sex attraction" and "bad gays." I got the impression that that message was being sent a little bit during the TLC show (especially by the one woman who said she got upset when people referred to her husband as "gay"). This type of use is self-righteous, at best. One of the things that bothers me the most about Church culture is this need for people to make themselves look righteous and better than everyone else. For that reason, I mostly try to avoid the term in most settings.

I also think, however, that many people (not all) who "get offended" by the term are not really getting offended by the term, but are instead using the term as a way to attack the Church and gay Mormons who decide not to have gay sex. There is a growing sentiment among certain parts of the gay-activist community that being gay and choosing not to have gay sex for religious or other reasons is some kind of hate crime. All you have to do is look at how some of these organizations reacted to the TLC show (which I didn't like, by the way). It was vitriolic. To these kind of people, the term "same-sex attraction" is a weird phrase that they can now use to mock and ridicule people who choose to follow the tenets of their religion. Like JL said, the phrase is weird and mostly unique to Mormons. I'm not sure that is a very good reason to deride people who use it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Moliere]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/el...-media-132606/

If there's one person in the gay world that you shouldn't pick a fight with, it's Ellen. Even my mom, one of the more homophobic people I know, is devoted Ellen watcher.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Daniel Peterson warns us that once we allow the queers to marry, incest is right around the corner.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpete...nd-incest.html

#fairness4all

[old_gregg]

Daniel Peterson warns us that once we allow the queers to marry, incest is right around the corner.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpete...nd-incest.html

#fairness4all

he is going to be pissed when he finds out marriage between disabled and sterile persons is legal

[TripletDaddy]

I am also in the camp that doesn't see church leaders as sinister. Perhaps they are naive as to what is acceptable terminology and what isn't.

When I hear leaders using the term, I just assume they also have come to the conclusion and accepted that same sex attraction is a behavior one is born with and not learned. I would hope even BKP has come to that conclusion.

Then again I have always been one who feels fine disagreeing with the brethern without needing to also lay some character flaw on them to justify disagreeing with them.

good post.

[Donuthole]

My cousin is the face of gay marriage in Utah (for today, at least per the LVRJ.)

Also, I think he looks like a smaller version of the big "purdle" kid.




http://www.reviewjournal.com/life/re...-one-condition

[Uncle Ted]

Daniel Peterson warns us that once we allow the queers to marry, incest is right around the corner.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpete...nd-incest.html

#fairness4all

Didn't JS Jr marry a couple of sisters?

Edit: I guess that may not be considered incestuous and queer unless they were in bed with him at the same time.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Not sure if this the best thread match, but....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...d1394&hpid=z10

Two days after the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced it backed some nondiscrimination legislation, Idaho became the first heavily Mormon state to consider such a bill, and legislators there, including some who are Mormons, voted it down.

[Harry Tic]

Not sure if this the best thread match, but....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...d1394&hpid=z10

Idaho Mormons are the most mormony mormons who ever mormoned. Utah Mormons got nothing on them.