Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[Pheidippides]

So we're going back to the homosexuality-is-a-mental-illness argument. Excellent.

Does the editorial board at the DesNews understand how tone deaf they are on this one?

In five years, probably less, they are going to wish they had buried all these articles somewhere not digitally accessible.

[ERCougar]

I read through the first few comments and it's encouraging to see that even Mormons are seeing this for the nonsense that it is.

[byu71]

I read through the first few comments and it's encouraging to see that even Mormons are seeing this for the nonsense that it is.

It is embarassing to be associated with those who throw out ancient arguments. How about you just believe in traditional marriage. If you can't argue that, then drop it. This mental and learned behavior crap is just that, crap.

[HBCoug]

In five years, probably less, they are going to wish they had buried all these articles somewhere not digitally accessible.

Maybe they can ask BYU-Idaho to archive the articles on their servers?

I read through the first few comments and it's encouraging to see that even Mormons are seeing this for the nonsense that it is.

Keep reading. It gets "better."

[Moliere]

In five years, probably less, they are going to wish they had buried all these articles somewhere not digitally accessible.

I hope it's less.

I don't really care about the BoM historicity or whether JS actually saw God, but when stuff like this gets printed in the church's newspaper it's incredibly offensive. At least they printed it as an opinion piece instead of an actual news article although the title could read "...is possible in very limited cases". Thankfully the only place I've seen this article show up on FB is in threads lamenting that the article was actually published.

[Northwestcoug]

I read through the first few comments and it's encouraging to see that even Mormons are seeing this for the nonsense that it is.

I agree. The ratio of comments must have been like 90% against the article. When the comments are more rational than the article, you have a problem, DesNews.

[Pheidippides]

I hope it's less.

I don't really care about the BoM historicity or whether JS actually saw God, but when stuff like this gets printed in the church's newspaper it's incredibly offensive. At least they printed it as an opinion piece instead of an actual news article although the title could read "...is possible in very limited cases". Thankfully the only place I've seen this article show up on FB is in threads lamenting that the article was actually published.

I totally get that. To an outsider, the BOM and JS stuff just makes you a harmless zealot with crazy beliefs. But add in the other and you are now a bigoted zealot. And nobody wants that, in or out.

[FMCoug]

I hope it's less.

I don't really care about the BoM historicity or whether JS actually saw God, but when stuff like this gets printed in the church's newspaper it's incredibly offensive. At least they printed it as an opinion piece instead of an actual news article although the title could read "...is possible in very limited cases". Thankfully the only place I've seen this article show up on FB is in threads lamenting that the article was actually published.

I totally get that. To an outsider, the BOM and JS stuff just makes you a harmless zealot with crazy beliefs. But add in the other and you are now a bigoted zealot. And nobody wants that, in or out.

This is a pretty good description of my current struggles with church activity. History stuff has never resonated with me. Current stuff though ...

[Moliere]

This is a pretty good description of my current struggles with church activity. History stuff has never resonated with me. Current stuff though ...

History stuff totally resonated with me but I've moved past that. I'm agnostic when it comes to most of the history.

[Blueintheface]

See I don't get that. If the historicity isn't important than it's just a community (fraternity if you like), right? That's weird to me. I certainly don't hold it against any active member that believes JS saw God/JC/et al, but to say you've "moved past" or it "doesn't resonate" as a reason to remain in the church seems bizarre to me. Am I missing something here?

Is it just that you are able to feel the love of God in a Mormon congregation? Does attendance/participation help you and your family to remain close? I'm really trying to see what it is that causes someone to participate when the fundamentals of the religion are removed or worse; accepted as untrue.

[Jacob]

I agree. The ratio of comments must have been like 90% against the article. When the comments are more rational than the article, you have a problem, DesNews.

Not to nitpick, but, it wasn't an article, it was an opinion piece. Apparently written by an evangelical, not a mormon (which is only significant because it is a mormon paper).

[SeattleUte]

You guys are funny. The Deseret News isn't a rogue voice in the LDS wilderness. This is mainstream LDS teaching. This is what the LDS Church is -- a racist organizatoin as long as public opinion would allow it to get away with it, and an organization that does not believe in gender equaility, that bullies and oppresses girls and women, telling them they're inferior from the time they were children and casts them out if they express public disagreement, that opposes civil rights for LGBT and teaches that LGBT are abnormal, sick and shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt or even raise children. LDS theology and culture is shot through with these attitudes. It's like pro football and the forward pass.

[CardiacCoug]

See I don't get that. If the historicity isn't important than it's just a community (fraternity if you like), right? That's weird to me. I certainly don't hold it against any active member that believes JS saw God/JC/et al, but to say you've "moved past" or it "doesn't resonate" as a reason to remain in the church seems bizarre to me. Am I missing something here?

Is it just that you are able to feel the love of God in a Mormon congregation? Does attendance/participation help you and your family to remain close? I'm really trying to see what it is that causes someone to participate when the fundamentals of the religion are removed or worse; accepted as untrue.

When you say "fundamentals of the religion" you're thinking abstract theology: literal atonement, scriptures, priesthood, Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon, Prophets, etc.

I think "fundamentals of the religion" can instead mean knowing and serving people in the ward and stake and you can do that most effectively when you stay in the church.

[CardiacCoug]

You guys are funny. The Deseret News isn't a rogue voice in the LDS wilderness. This is mainstream LDS teaching. This is what the LDS Church is -- a racist organizatoin as long as public opinion would allow it to get away with it, and an organization that does not believe in gender equaility, that bullies and oppresses girls and women, telling them they're inferior from the time they were children and casts them out if they express public disagreement, that opposes civil rights for LGBT and teaches that LGBT are abnormal, sick and shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt or even raise children. LDS theology and culture is shot through with these attitudes. It's like pro football and the forward pass.

Yep it's led by our grandfathers and people who share the incorrect attitudes/biases of our grandfathers. Don't worry, we'll bring the church around eventually. The Church is more than its mistakes -- it's also the community, like McMurrin says.

[Blueintheface]

When you say "fundamentals of the religion" you're thinking abstract theology: literal atonement, scriptures, priesthood, Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon, Prophets, etc.

I think "fundamentals of the religion" can instead mean knowing and serving people in the ward and stake and you can do that most effectively when you stay in the church.

I should have stated that more clearly. I'm not discounting "serve thy neighbor" as a integral part of the gospel of Jesus Christ (not specifically Mormon of course) but when I think fundamentals I think about what makes it distinct from other Christian faiths. I don't have to restate what makes Mormonism unique.