Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

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  • Jeff Lebowski
    Corporate lackey for Jesus
    • Nov 2008
    • 69637

    #1741
    Peggy Fletcher Stack with a great article on the letter and the various reactions it has provoked. Some bad, some good.



    It was "a train wreck," filled with distrust and fear and 'us' verses 'them' comments," wrote a Lehi Latter-day Saint. "With the exception of one lovely woman, every comment and response was a reflection of perceived victimhood, how our religious freedoms are being attacked, and the persecution our church is under. There was almost nothing about Christlike love or compassion for those who are different than us. It was awful."
    Nick Einbender, a gay member in Honolulu, said his bishop read the letter to all adults and youths, then opened it up to discussion.

    The first comment came from Einbender's partner, Spencer Mickelson, who explained that "he has done everything his church leaders have suggested throughout his life to overcome and deal with being gay short of brainwashing himself, and that over a period of time, through prayer and personal revelation following the promptings of the Spirit, has realized that being gay is part of his mission here on Earth."

    Mickelson went on to share his faith in the Mormon gospel, Einbender recounted in an email, and many in the room were quietly weeping and nodding in agreement.

    Einbender then addressed the group.

    "I bore my testimony of the motivating power of Christ's teachings and pleaded with the members to love, embrace, welcome and support a gay son, daughter, family member or friend, even without having the answers to reconcile their own beliefs with the situation," he wrote. "That love is enough. I reminded them that a seemingly insignificant act of kindness and love by them toward other members of the church may be an answer to a prayer, may be a miracle, may save a life."

    After the session, members surrounded the couple as if they were "in a wedding lineup," Einbender said. "They ranged from 90-plus-year-olds to young teenagers all with smiles, with tears, and an outpouring of love that one would had to have been present to understand. It was truly humbling not only to receive such love, but also to be used as tools of understanding in God's hands."
    One more:

    Steve Rotterdam, who attends a Manhattan LDS ward, noted a vigorous discussion among the men in the ward's high priests' group, including a number of summer visitors.

    "Pretty much everyone agreed that we are poorer as a ward family," Rotterdam wrote, "when we exclude and/or marginalize members of our community for any reason."

    He then quipped: "Finally, no one was concerned about the possibility of same-sex couples wanting to have ceremonies or celebrations held on the grounds of the church, because, honestly, have you seen our gym?"
    I made that same joke with some ward members and it totally bombed.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    • hostile
      lollygagger
      • Dec 2009
      • 5736

      #1742
      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      Peggy Fletcher Stack with a great article on the letter and the various reactions it has provoked. Some bad, some good.







      One more:



      I made that same joke with some ward members and it totally bombed.
      Maybe your gym is awesome!

      We had one member ask if we continue having wedding receptions for heterosexual couples would the tax exempt status be threatened. We met as adults and youth combined and as would be expected none of the youth had any comments or questions.
      "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

      "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

      Comment

      • TripletDaddy
        sweet triple
        • Nov 2008
        • 58186

        #1743
        WTF is everyone obsessed with tax exempt status? is not paying taxes the be all end all??
        Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

        sigpic

        Comment

        • Moliere
          One man.....one pie
          • Oct 2009
          • 27860

          #1744
          We got the letter read to us today. The bishop asked for questions or comments. There was silence so he excused everyone to go to Sunday school.
          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

          Comment

          • thesaint258
            aka Benito Hazard
            • Jan 2009
            • 3005

            #1745
            Originally posted by Moliere View Post
            We got the letter read to us today. The bishop asked for questions or comments. There was silence so he excused everyone to go to Sunday school.
            We didn't even have a Q&A. No complaints here.
            Not that, sickos.

            Comment

            • BigPiney
              Huge Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 12362

              #1746
              Originally posted by Moliere View Post
              We got the letter read to us today. The bishop asked for questions or comments. There was silence so he excused everyone to go to Sunday school.
              That is how it went last week for us. Boring.

              Comment

              • Dwight Schr-ute
                Members Only
                • May 2011
                • 4917

                #1747
                Our letter happened today. The duty somehow fell to the EQP to read it in priesthood opening exercises. He clearly didn't want to get into things and simply read the letter and encouraged anyone with questions to talk to the bishop. Meanwhile, the second councilor (the same guy that texted me a dick pic on Father's Day) got the nod to handle the Relief Society. According to my wife, they had a positive discussion following the letter.
                I told him he was a goddamn Nazi Stormtrooper.

                Comment

                • smokymountainrain
                  Impressive Member
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 22593

                  #1748
                  What letter? Only went to Sac meeting yesterday.

                  I'm like LeBron James.
                  -mpfunk

                  Comment

                  • Uncle Ted
                    The Big 12 money shot.
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 28853

                    #1749
                    Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                    WTF is everyone obsessed with tax exempt status? is not paying taxes the be all end all??
                    After reading the letter most of the discussion centered around BYU or the church losing its tax exempt status. The lawyers in the room pointed out that because of some law that President Obama signed in 2009 and SCOTUS ruling in 2013 LGBT are considered a protected class or group. And because of this special designation it will make it easier for BYU to lose its tax exempt status like Bob Jones University did over its interracial dating/marriage policy. I didn't know there were so many constitutional lawyers in my ward.

                    But having the church/BYU lose its tax exempt status will be a nice revenue boast for the state of Utah.
                    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment

                    • byu71
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 22070

                      #1750
                      Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                      After reading the letter most of the discussion centered around BYU or the church losing its tax exempt status. The lawyers in the room pointed out that because of some law that President Obama signed in 2009 and SCOTUS ruling in 2013 LGBT are considered a protected class or group. And because of this special designation it will make it easier for BYU to lose its tax exempt status like Bob Jones University did over its interracial dating/marriage policy. I didn't know there were so many constitutional lawyers in my ward.

                      But having the church/BYU lose its tax exempt status will be a nice revenue boast for the state of Utah.
                      Not only having to pay taxes, but think of all the donations they will lose if it isn't tax deductible to the donor.

                      Comment

                      • ERCougar
                        Junior Member
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 10978

                        #1751
                        Originally posted by Dwight Schr-ute View Post
                        (the same guy that texted me a dick pic on Father's Day)
                        Wait, what?


                        Solon never gets on any more so I'll tell his story. He told me yesterday that they read the letter and some guy asked, "what do we do if some gay couple like comes to sacrament meeting? And like what if they are like hugging and stuff?" The bishop, a friend of mine who is nice but not particularly reflective, was apparently stumped. Fortunately, the SP was present and rescued him with "um...act normal?"

                        This is the church we have in southern Utah. Anyone wonder why the church is 0 for 3 among CSers here?
                        At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                        -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

                        Comment

                        • Moliere
                          One man.....one pie
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 27860

                          #1752
                          Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                          Wait, what?


                          Solon never gets on any more so I'll tell his story. He told me yesterday that they read the letter and some guy asked, "what do we do if some gay couple like comes to sacrament meeting? And like what if they are like hugging and stuff?" The bishop, a friend of mine who is nice but not particularly reflective, was apparently stumped. Fortunately, the SP was present and rescued him with "um...act normal?"

                          This is the church we have in southern Utah. Anyone wonder why the church is 0 for 3 among CSers here?
                          Well, down there it would be less weird to have a guy show up with four wives
                          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                          Comment

                          • Dwight Schr-ute
                            Members Only
                            • May 2011
                            • 4917

                            #1753
                            Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                            Wait, what?
                            Apparently the fact that he's a urologist fogs any concept he has for propriety. Donut can likely speak to this. I can't imagine his behavior on the golf course.
                            I told him he was a goddamn Nazi Stormtrooper.

                            Comment

                            • Solon
                              Lost in the flood
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 5747

                              #1754
                              Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                              Wait, what?


                              Solon never gets on any more so I'll tell his story. He told me yesterday that they read the letter and some guy asked, "what do we do if some gay couple like comes to sacrament meeting? And like what if they are like hugging and stuff?" The bishop, a friend of mine who is nice but not particularly reflective, was apparently stumped. Fortunately, the SP was present and rescued him with "um...act normal?"

                              This is the church we have in southern Utah. Anyone wonder why the church is 0 for 3 among CSers here?
                              Good re-telling, ER. Thanks.
                              I'll be back online more when school starts up again. Until then, that Southern Utah summertime is calling my name.
                              "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
                              -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

                              Comment

                              • Donuthole
                                Official Outgayer
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 25255

                                #1755
                                Originally posted by Dwight Schr-ute View Post
                                Apparently the fact that he's a urologist fogs any concept he has for propriety. Donut can likely speak to this. I can't imagine his behavior on the golf course.
                                Not gonna lie; I'm pretty ticked I didn't get any pics. To your point, though, I think he's still feeling out just how irreverent he can be around me, since the mutual friend who introduced us is pretty saintly.

                                Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                                Wait, what?

                                Solon never gets on any more so I'll tell his story. He told me yesterday that they read the letter and some guy asked, "what do we do if some gay couple like comes to sacrament meeting? And like what if they are like hugging and stuff?" The bishop, a friend of mine who is nice but not particularly reflective, was apparently stumped. Fortunately, the SP was present and rescued him with "um...act normal?"

                                This is the church we have in southern central Utah. Anyone wonder why the church is 0 for 3 among CSers here?
                                Originally posted by Solon View Post
                                Good re-telling, ER. Thanks.
                                I'll be back online more when school starts up again. Until then, that Southern central Utah summertime is calling my name.


                                FIFY
                                Last edited by Donuthole; 07-13-2015, 10:12 AM.
                                Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                                There's three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as a city; and never go near a lady's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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