Modesty...what does it mean?

[pellegrino]

KD, both extremes objectify women. Covering the female body shows just as much of a preoccupation with the feminine form as unveiling it. I think that modesty means not bringing too much attention to yourself by your dress and I tend to agree with BBB as to letting her make her choices, reserving judgment for really those bad choices.

[Babs]

I was sooooo relieved when the ultrasound of the second revealed another boy.

[Mrs. Funk]

My mom has come a long way in her fashion tastes, but still occasionally tries to match shades of red in an outfit (that is, red pants w/ a red shirt...).

My parents were stricter than many about modesty. My skirts had to touch the ground when I kneeled down and my mom would often yank my shirt up lest, gasp, I showed a peek of bosom.

Modesty in my home was couched in the "the girl is the gatekeeper" philosophy. That is, I was taught that hormonal males can't help themselves when they see a skantily-clad female and it was my fault for tempting them. I'm grateful I didn't actually have sexual indiscretions as a teenager, as I probably would have thought it was all my fault.

I do keep the g's covered, but personally fail to understand the evils of bare shoulders.

[Gidget]

While shopping with my wife, I'm repeatedly suprised at just how crappy the quality is in a lot of women's clothing at some mall clothing stores. My wife would often come home and tell me something like "I can't believe how cheap this was" and proceed to tell me how she bought _ number of shirts/shoes because of the price. Over the past year, I've made a concerted effort to encourage my wife to buy quality and not quantity. Sure, look for a good deal at Nordstrom's Rack or TJ Maxx or whatever, but just make sure it's quality and something you really want- just don't buy based on price. Items bought in the past that were more expensive that I encouraged her to buy have invariably been worn more and lasted longer than the cheap stuff (no surprise).

Wow. I wish my husband thought like this.

I would consider myself like Triplet's wife. I dress well and can remain modest since I wear garments, but I don't know if my daughter will think that is cool. I can only hope with our parenting and prayers that she doesn't think of her body image as defining herself in those formative years, like so many other girls do.

I think it is possible that if girls had more money to buy quality clothes they would likely come home with more conservative attire, but that only accounts for the girls who have good self-esteem and body image, and know how precious their bodies are. But honestly, how many teenage girls have those things? No matter how much money, if certain principles about self worth are never learned, I think there will be a general leaning towards 'whatever everyone else thinks is cool, is cool.' Which would mean skimpy tops, shorts and swimsuits a lot of the time.

[Gidget]

I do keep the g's covered, but personally fail to understand the evils of bare shoulders.

Me too, especially with a sweltering humid summer starting up.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

My mom has come a long way in her fashion tastes, but still occasionally tries to match shades of red in an outfit (that is, red pants w/ a red shirt...).

My parents were stricter than many about modesty. My skirts had to touch the ground when I kneeled down and my mom would often yank my shirt up lest, gasp, I showed a peek of bosom.

Modesty in my home was couched in the "the girl is the gatekeeper" philosophy. That is, I was taught that hormonal males can't help themselves when they see a skantily-clad female and it was my fault for tempting them. I'm grateful I didn't actually have sexual indiscretions as a teenager, as I probably would have thought it was all my fault.

I do keep the g's covered, but personally fail to understand the evils of bare shoulders.

The odd thing about the bare shoulders bit is that it wasn't immodest when my mom was in college back in the early 60s. Women at BYU were allowed to wear sleaveless clothing. When the late 60s hit, BYU overreacted by disallowing shorts, jeans, beard and sleeveless clothing. Maybe I'm just weird about this, but seeing bare shoulders and bare armpits doesn't do a whole lot for me.

[I.J. Reilly]

The odd thing about the bare shoulders bit is that it wasn't immodest when my mom was in college back in the early 60s. Women at BYU were allowed to wear sleaveless clothing. When the late 60s hit, BYU overreacted by disallowing shorts, jeans, beard and sleeveless clothing. Maybe I'm just weird about this, but seeing bare shoulders and bare armpits doesn't do a whole lot for me.

The BYU of the late 60's was a reactionary environment. It has cursed the life of many students since.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Wow. I wish my husband thought like this.

I would consider myself like Triplet's wife. I dress well and can remain modest since I wear garments, but I don't know if my daughter will think that is cool. I can only hope with our parenting and prayers that she doesn't think of her body image as defining herself in those formative years, like so many other girls do.

I think it is possible that if girls had more money to buy quality clothes they would likely come home with more conservative attire, but that only accounts for the girls who have good self-esteem and body image, and know how precious their bodies are. But honestly, how many teenage girls have those things? No matter how much money, if certain principles about self worth are never learned, I think there will be a general leaning towards 'whatever everyone else thinks is cool, is cool.' Which would mean skimpy tops, shorts and swimsuits a lot of the time.

Clothing means a lot as a teenager and can actually affect which kind of crowd you run around with. I look at it as a matter of choice between A or B. I think it's important to give a teenage girl (if possible) a really compelling choice A (clothes that are fashionable and happen to also be modest) versus a choice B which is cheaper and more provocative clothing. If you're paying a significant portion of the purchase price, then you can also have say over what they buy. It goes without saying that it is vital to instill a sense of self-worth in young girls.

But another thing worth mentioning is not getting too freaky about certain items of clothing. I don't deem a piece of sleeveless clothing automatically immodest. Shorts above the knee are also okay- up to a certain point. I don't want the rules to be so stringent that my daughter gets the feeling that she can't wear anything cute. Give her wide latitude so she has a sense of freedom regarding her wardrobe, but at the same time set boundaries that cannot be crossed- e.g. spaghetti straps, tube tops, Daisy Dukes. Without the freedom, they'll sometimes want to do something just to spite their parents which would mean they bypass the whole sleeveless- and cute and modest- segment and they go immediately for the spaghetti strap tops you see the Girls Gone Wild dames wearing at a club right before they lift it up for the camera.

[myboynoah]

I've noticed, as anyone who is paying attention will notice, that the standards of modesty fluctuate. Using the previous generations standard for modesty does not make sense. Thus, each generation defines what is titilating or modest in their own generation. As a result, I don't buy into the concept that the Church's FTSoY pamphlet has anything of value to offer on the topic of modesty.

Currently dealing with a related issue with a teenage daughter, all I can say is "good luck with that."

Educate her on peers, boys, etc., but leave the modesty decisions to her. If she's uncomfortable in an outfit, it'll find its way to the back of the closet quickly. If a parent outlaws an outfit, it'll be hidden at the bottom of a school bag just as quickly.

Then check the school bag.

Yeah, it's great when they listen and make the correct decision. But when they don't, the pain can be unbearable.

Sure, educate and all, but I tend to rule with an iron fist while educating some more. I now regret not using two iron fists. The risks are too great. These are adolescents we are dealing with.

[cougjunkie]

It means dont let your kids end up like this:

[Surfah]

I am more concerned about my daughter keeping her knees together than keeping them covered. That said, I will be judging her clothing choices and checking her backpack before she heads off to school.

[marsupial]

Modesty for my daughter means she is not going to be wearing anything "sexy" while she is a minor and living with us. Sleeveless shirts and dresses and shorts and skirts above the knee aren't necessarily sexy (or slutty). She can wear them. Midriff tops, anything that would show cleavage, shorts and skirts that are so short that you can hardly bend over without showing booty are out of the question. She is 3 now. She wears tank tops, sleeveless sundresses, etc., but anything that would be considered sexy on a more developed girl are out. So she wears one-piece swimsuits and I would not dress her in a halter top.

[marsupial]

One thing I hate about modesty as it is taught in YW is that it always comes down to this idea that males can't control themselves and if a woman is showing too much skin it is her fault.

[SoCalCoug]

This can all be resolved very easily. Give her a chastity belt, and then it doesn't really matter what she wears.

[The_Tick]

I'm not tending toward those types of (I believe) arbitrary rules. Tanks have to pass the "two finger rule" how does that make them universally modest? Once piece bathing suits? Doesn't make sense to me as a rule. Your rules seem to have been derived from some era and location and are therefore not going to be flexible enough for me.

KD,

When you have a teenage daughter, call me.

I am with MBN on this one. Better to be strict and loving than regret it later.