Looking forward to minimum wage increase.

[Bo Diddley]

You should have him move to Henderson, NV. They seem to pay their police officers pretty well.

http://transparentnevada.com/salarie...=police&y=2015

I should think about submitting an application. My cousin's husband retired from Henderson a few years back.

[frank ryan]

Back when Nixon was president, there was a push to have a "living wage" guaranteed by the government by way of subsidies. I guess there is some of that right now with food stamps, housing, FDIC, etc. But the theory then was that people would get their pay from whatever low income job they have, and then a government subsidy would make up the difference between that and whatever was considered a "living wage".

As I understand it, Nixon was even on board and it looked like it would get through congress. But then someone got all uptight about what a "living wage" was, Watergate came along, and the support for it dried up.



There are also workers who just don't have the capacity to do much more than McDonalds. We had one in our ward for a while until she moved away when her father - who owned the home she was living in - died and the family sold the house. She may have been able to take a small step up from McDonalds, but not much of one.

While I'm not sure raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour is the answer, I often think of her and consider that it isn't just high school kids and lazy or uneducated/unskilled folks who work fast food. There are also some there that are at capacity. So - how do we determine who these people are and make sure they are taken care of?

Either benefits need to be raised or the minimum wage does. There are so many people who might not qualify to disability but are seriously intellectually challenged. They have no chance in our economy.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Then I'd buy you a green dress (but not a real green dress).

And the fanciest ketchups. (3 years later)

[Eddie]

Either benefits need to be raised or the minimum wage does. There are so many people who might not qualify to disability but are seriously intellectually challenged. They have no chance in our economy.

Exactly. They really don't have the opportunity to get ahead. I get that they will never be wealthy. But it would be nice if they weren't mired in absolute poverty. And it would be nice if their children didn't feel stuck in a cycle they can't get out of even if they have the smarts mom and dad don't and are capable of more, but don't see a way out.

[Nakoma]

While I'm not sure raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour is the answer, I often think of her and consider that it isn't just high school kids and lazy or uneducated/unskilled folks who work fast food. There are also some there that are at capacity. So - how do we determine who these people are and make sure they are taken care of?

Sounds about right. About 20% or more of the population is limited in the job opportunities/income because of low intelligence. Many of these people are probably already receiving subsidized housing and some form of Medicaid. Maybe even food stamps. What else would you suggest doing for their welfare?

bellcurve.jpg

[SCcoug]

If your objective is to help the poor a minimum wage seems like a bad tool to use.

[BlueK]

Thanks, I appreciate the information you and Shaka have provided.

Here is what I have a hard time getting with the minimum wage. Someone with skills and experience and sacrificed to move up the ladder in manufacturing or say a very difficult job like law enforcement are making around $20 an hour. They may also have good benefits.

Then you have a 17 year old walking into McDonalds or spraying off cars as they go into the car wash at Slim Olsen's making $15 an hour. Where is the incentive when the kid is 22 to go somewhere and work his way up to $20 an hour and beyond? It just doesn't click. What the progressives are basically saying is the free market doesn't do a good job at setting value and therefor we need the government to do that.

Sort of like what Trump and many conservatives are saying is that the free market doesn't do a good job of regulating how much immigrant labor is needed in the economy and therefore we need the government to decide that -- which in their current estimation is basically zero, so let's build a wall.

[Eddie]

Sounds about right. About 20% or more of the population is limited in the job opportunities/income because of low intelligence. Many of these people are probably already receiving subsidized housing and some form of Medicaid. Maybe even food stamps. What else would you suggest doing for their welfare?

[ATTACH]6854[/ATTACH]

Not sure. Like I said, I don't necessarily think raising the minimum wage is the answer. And I'm not sure how we should determine what is considered a minimal standard of living for folks like this. Or how we determine who is at capacity and who is just lazy and would rather live simple than work hard.

There are a lot of factors that play into it.

[snowcat]

Either benefits need to be raised or the minimum wage does. There are so many people who might not qualify to disability but are seriously intellectually challenged. They have no chance in our economy.

I have one employee who would qualify as seriously intellectually challenged. I have tried to carve out a spot that will work with her skill level and productivity. We pay her $9.50/hr with free health insurance. If I was forced to pay a $15/hr minimum wage, it would not be possible for us to have a position where she could create that much value. She would be a victim rather than a beneficiary of an increased minimum wage.

[frank ryan]

Sounds about right. About 20% or more of the population is limited in the job opportunities/income because of low intelligence. Many of these people are probably already receiving subsidized housing and some form of Medicaid. Maybe even food stamps. What else would you suggest doing for their welfare?

[ATTACH]6854[/ATTACH]

And many of them are not. Certainly the single, full-time workers w/out the disabled designation are not. Those people are definitely not getting housing.

[Nakoma]

And many of them are not. Certainly the single, full-time workers w/out the disabled designation are not. Those people are definitely not getting housing.

What are you basing that on? According to HUD requirements, the qualifying threshold for subsidized housing is earning less than 50% of the median income in the community where you live. You can reference the qualifications for the entire country here. https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datas..._Geography.odn

A single individual can easily qualify if he or she is making minimum wage.

[Moliere]

Embedded Tweet

FiveThirtyEight does an article on the impact of a $15 minimum wage in Seattle (actually, it's not quite at $15 as I believe that hike is coming in the near future, it appears to be only at $13 now) and the replies are pretty funny. It's almost like conservatives trying to invalidate a global warming article. From the article:

New research released Monday by a team of economists at the University of Washington suggests the wage hike may have come at a significant cost: The increase led to steep declines in employment for low-wage workers, and a drop in hours for those who kept their jobs. Crucially, the negative impact of lost jobs and hours more than offset the benefits of higher wages — on average, low-wage workers earned $125 per month less because of the higher wage, a small but significant decline.

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by this. Increased mandatory wages leads many people to seek our lower cost alternatives and it looks like that is exactly what is happening. Whether it's automation through kiosks/technology or just reducing hours and making people more responsible/work harder for the time they are at work, which isn't unreasonable if you pay them more.

[Uncle Ted]

I am all for raising the minimum wage since it is driving faster adaption of robot labor... and wall street even agrees that this is a good thing:

McDonald's hits all-time high as Wall Street cheers replacement of cashiers with kiosks

• Cowen says McDonald's will upgrade 2,500 restaurants to its "Experience of the Future" technology by year-end, which includes digital ordering kiosks.
• The firm raises its rating on McDonald's to outperform from market perform and price target for the shares to $180 from $142.
• Same store sales estimate for 2018 raised to 3 percent from 2 percent.

McDonald's shares hit an all-time high on Tuesday as Wall Street expects sales to increase from new digital ordering kiosks that will replace cashiers in 2,500 restaurants.


Cowen raised its rating on McDonald's shares to outperform from market perform because of the technology upgrades, which are slated for the fast-food chain's restaurants this year.


McDonald's shares rallied 26 percent this year through Monday compared to the S&P 500's 10 percent return.
[...]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/20/mcdon...th-kiosks.html

I can't wait until a human hand doesn't ever touch my big mac before it touches my lips. Who knows where those human hands have been.

[Scott R Nelson]

I have mixed feelings about raising the minimum wage. It sounds like a good idea overall, but an argument in the nytimes had this quote, which I also agree with:

The minimum wage hike is a terrible idea. It makes it more difficult for small businesses, like restaurants, to hire younger or unskilled workers. It encourages large franchises to move toward increased automation.

I'm trying to look at both sides of issues, but also have this problem that I tend to agree with both sides too.

Anybody want to sway me one way or the other without resorting to "party line" arguments?

[Pelado]

I have mixed feelings about raising the minimum wage. It sounds like a good idea overall, but an argument in the nytimes had this quote, which I also agree with:


I'm trying to look at both sides of issues, but also have this problem that I tend to agree with both sides too.

Anybody want to sway me one way or the other without resorting to "party line" arguments?

In some ways, the minimum wage is not required. If employers don't pay enough, they won't have any employees. My 16-year-old started working as a dishwasher in a BBQ restaurant at $9/hour - quite a bit higher than the $7.25 federal minimum wage. We went to Taco Bell the other day at my wife's request. On the window was a notice that they are hiring. The starting wage was $10.50/hour.

If employers are forced to pay $15 per hour for unskilled labor, they might find that automation makes more sense, reducing the total amount that gets paid to unskilled workers.

One of the reasons why the left always wants to increase the minimum wage is because many of the union contracts have rates that are based on the federal minimum wage or have escalating triggers or mandatory renegotiation whenever the FMW goes up. So increasing the minimum wage doesn't just increase the minimum wage, it also tends to increase costs for most things that organized labor does.

There are still good reasons for having a federal minimum wage, but none of them are coming to my mind at the moment.