The Fiscal Cliff

[Moliere]

Edit: Where the hell is Moliere to check my math?

I'm in quarter close trying to convince an audit partner that he's directly contradicting a national publication issued by his own firm. Apparently it doesn't take reading comprehension to make partner these days.

Oh, and I'm not a tax accountant so I can't help you out with Obamacare

[imanihonjin]

Why are they calling it a tax credit instead of a subsidy?

I thought that was the medicaid extension. Is Utah one of the states that extended medicaid? BTW, where does the money for the medicaid extension magically come from?

I am guessing that it couldn't be called a tax credit when the ACA was passed because no Democrat, even Obama himself, wanted tax to be associated with the measures inside of the bill. Which makes the SCOTUS decision laughable.

[byu71]

So it looks like we are heading to a temporary deal. My wish, which is a pipe dream, is that the media and the pundits would shut the hell up on their opinions during the period the politicians are supposed to work things out. They (media) absolutely poison the water and then opine about how messed up the politicians are.

[Moliere]

Has anyone in Washington floated the idea of a Super committee that could be assembled to figure out ways to get us out of this mess? I'm thinking that would be a great idea this time around.

[Joe Public]

Do dems believe that the money magically appears from no where to pay the difference in this family's health insurance?



Note that this is a tax credit and carefully consider what that means.

This family will be paying $10,200 for their health insurance. Of course, if they pay more than $8,724 $17,724 (considering the get a $3,000 tax credit for each kid...) in taxes they will actually only pay $123/mo. The question is will they actually pay that much in taxes. Also, I see $9,000 in tax credits in just kids if the picture is correct and the kids belong to them. Also, I assume they will have some state income taxes.

Assuming they are married and filing jointly...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphi...unts-and-more/

In short, it seems they will need to be making more than six figures for that much in tax credits. If they are making more than six figures then would they still qualify for the tax credit?

Edit: Where the hell is Moliere to check my math?

I am not Moliere (really, who is?), and I've only spent a couple of minutes looking at this out of curiosity, but FWIW:

The amount of the health insurance premium assistance tax credit is based on household income, which is basically defined as the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer and family. If household income is between 100% and 400% of the federal poverty level, then an eligible taxpayer receives a credit that is essentially the lesser of (1) the actual monthly insurance premium or (2) a percentage of the second-lowest-cost Silver insurance plan offered to that taxpayer through the health care exchange. In the latter case, the percentage is calculated on a sliding scale that would have the taxpayer paying no more than between 2% (if at 100% of poverty line) and 9.5% (if at 300% or greater of poverty line) of household income on health insurance premiums. If a taxpayer selects a more expensive plan, then the taxpayer must pay the difference in premiums.

From the SLTrib article, the second-lowest-cost Silver plan on the Utah exchange costs $7,413 per year. If the federal poverty line for a family of five is $27,570, then a subsidy of around $8,724 (($850-$123)*12) represents a household income of around $91,832, or 333% of the poverty line, for the family mentioned in the article.

[imanihonjin]

I am not Moliere (really, who is?), and I've only spent a couple of minutes looking at this out of curiosity, but FWIW:

The amount of the health insurance premium assistance tax credit is based on household income, which is basically defined as the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer and family. If household income is between 100% and 400% of the federal poverty level, then an eligible taxpayer receives a credit that is essentially the lesser of (1) the actual monthly insurance premium or (2) a percentage of the second-lowest-cost Silver insurance plan offered to that taxpayer through the health care exchange. In the latter case, the percentage is calculated on a sliding scale that would have the taxpayer paying no more than between 2% (if at 100% of poverty line) and 9.5% (if at 300% or greater of poverty line) of household income on health insurance premiums. If a taxpayer selects a more expensive plan, then the taxpayer must pay the difference in premiums.

From the SLTrib article, the second-lowest-cost Silver plan on the Utah exchange costs $7,413 per year. If the federal poverty line for a family of five is $27,570, then a subsidy of around $8,724 (($850-$123)*12) represents a household income of around $91,832, or 333% of the poverty line, for the family mentioned in the article.

This can't be right. 9.5 percent of $91,832 is $8,724. So, according to the information you provided, the credit would be the lesser of (1) the actual monthly insurance premium, which is $850 in this case, or (2) the sliding scale of 9.5% of the dudes household income, which is $727 ((91,832*.095)/12). In this case, for a person making $91,832/year they would have a minimum out of pocket expense of $727 based on the info you provided above.

If a dude making $91,832 is eligible for a subsidy of more than $700/month for insurance, then I have no idea how in the world America would be able to pay for this plan.

[Joe Public]

This can't be right. 9.5 percent of $91,832 is $8,724. So, according to the information you provided, the credit would be the lesser of (1) the actual monthly insurance premium, which is $850 in this case, or (2) the sliding scale of 9.5% of the dudes household income, which is $727 ((91,832*.095)/12). In this case, for a person making $91,832/year they would have a minimum out of pocket expense of $727 based on the info you provided above.

If a dude making $91,832 is eligible for a subsidy of more than $700/month for insurance, then I have no idea how in the world America would be able to pay for this plan.

You're right. That's what I get for posting on little sleep for days; my reasonableness meter isn't working too well right now. A credit of $8,724 per year with a remaining premium of $1,476 per year calculates into a household income of around $40K/year, or between 133% and 150% of the poverty line.

[imanihonjin]

You're right. That's what I get for posting on little sleep for days; my reasonableness meter isn't working too well right now. A credit of $8,724 per year with a remaining premium of $1,476 per year calculates into a household income of around $40K/year, or between 133% and 150% of the poverty line.

Its all good....except you need to get some sleep!

[Jacob]

Why are they calling it a tax credit instead of a subsidy?

I thought that was the medicaid extension. Is Utah one of the states that extended medicaid? BTW, where does the money for the medicaid extension magically come from?

They always cell them credits,earned income credit, child credit, these will pay you cash if you didn't owe taxes. I agree it's not a good term, but the Obamacare credit is a cash subsidy.

[imanihonjin]

They always cell them credits,earned income credit, child credit, these will pay you cash if you didn't owe taxes. I agree it's not a good term, but the Obamacare credit is a cash subsidy.

Not all credits will return you cash even if you didn't owe taxes. Some are "refundable" credits (will return you cash) and some are non-refundable (will only reduce your tax liability to zero and no more).

[Uncle Ted]

It kind of looks like it is getting more exponential...

[Uncle Ted]

53% in poll want major spending cuts as part of debt ceiling deal?!?

53% Want Major Spending Cuts As Part of Debt Ceiling Deal

Most voters agree that if Congress and the president don’t raise the federal debt ceiling it will be bad for the economy but think major cuts in government spending should be part of any deal to raise that ceiling.
[...]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...t_ceiling_deal

In other news, it seems that Obama lied to us again... he is negotiating with those "terrorist"!:

10 days after government shutdown, Obama and GOP start negotiating
[...]
The meeting between Mr. Obama and his team and the House Republican leaders lasted approximately 90 minutes. Boehner did not talk to reporters afterward, but when the group returned to the Capitol, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., told reporters the talks had been productive.


"We had a very useful meeting. It was clarifying, I think, to both sides as to where we are. And the takeaway from the meeting was, our teams are going to be talking further tonight. We'll have more discussion. We will come back to have more discussion," Cantor said. "The President said that he would go and consult with the administration folks, and hopefully we can see a way forward after that."
[...]

[All-American]

Obama is turning the short term deal down.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Nation/20...-shutdown.html

EDIT: nobody else seems to be running with this. Maybe the Toledo blade really is on the cusp of journalism, but ...

[Omaha 680]

It kind of looks like it is getting more exponential...

The Economist said we need to abolish the debt ceiling. That should take care of everything.

[Jacob]

The debt ceiling is the law. Congress passed it, Obama signed it. Elections matter. It is the law of the land. Why are the democrat extremists holding the country hostage? It's the law.