The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[imanihonjin]

Then quit pretending you're not going to vote for Trump. He's all that stands between us and socialism, man.



The republican party is nearly dead. It will take some time in the desert before it's seen as a viable alternative able to moderate the left. Hasten the day by handing the reigns over to the democrats.

I guess I don't have the same optimism that you do that the party can turn it around. If the democrats run wild, do you think Rush and Hannity and Levin will all of the sudden become more moderate? I don't. Their shrill will just reach new levels and the party will continue to be fractured and divided.

[imanihonjin]

I wonder if it's fair to equate a congressional subpoena and a judicial subpoena.

Yet, you had no problem with equating your casual deletion of 30,000 emails and picking one's nose to HRC's deletion of 30,000 emails in the face of a congressional subpoena.

[Topper]

Then quit pretending you're not going to vote for Trump. He's all that stands between us and socialism, man.



The republican party is nearly dead. It will take some time in the desert before it's seen as a viable alternative able to moderate the left. Hasten the day by handing the reigns over to the democrats.

Trump is a socialist as well. Voting for him or for Hillary is not a viable option. Johnson is not a socialist. Control the size of government. Control taxation. Stop unnecessary market interventions. I believe in market responses to most government responses.

You may be correct because many people simply accept without question that government will supplant the markets, that government will somehow achieve what the markets cannot. With the sense of entitlement that the Snowflake Generation holds dear, people desire the illusion of security instead of the reality of liberty and risk. If we become a one party system, it will not bode well for the quality of life.

[SeattleUte]

Yet, you had no problem with equating your casual deletion of 30,000 emails and picking one's nose to HRC's deletion of 30,000 emails in the face of a congressional subpoena.

I think political prosecutions are moral abominations, which is what's wrong with what Congress was doing; they're little better than Trump sometimes. We should have learned the folly of politicizing something that apes the criminal justice system from that despicable charlatan and hypocrite Ken Starr.

[Topper]

I'd take Holland 2016 over Italy 1935 any day of the week.

1935 Italy was a totalitarian regime, with protectionist policies. Modern day is better as a result of technology. Modern day Netherlands has some aspects of libertarianism, i.e., decriminalization of drugs, abortion, euthanasia, access to modern medicine and technology, and some measure of freedom of the press. I believe there were socialist healthcare in 1935 Italy; there certainly was in Germany at that time.

I don't understand your comparison.

[BlueK]

1935 Italy was a totalitarian regime, with protectionist policies. Modern day is better as a result of technology.
I don't understand your comparison.

I don't understand why this doesn't describe what the Trumpster is trying to do here.

[Topper]

I think political prosecutions are moral abominations, which is what's wrong with what Congress was doing; they're little better than Trump sometimes. We should have learned the folly of politicizing something that apes the criminal justice system from that despicable charlatan and hypocrite Ken Starr.

Political raping of a political adversary is old as time itself. There is the court of public perception. If you studied the case which the potentially politically motivated or influenced FBI refused to prosecute, you can see it was very close and another prosecutor could have taken the case.

Politics is knock down warfare. We should never expect morality to surface during a time of warfare. You can't be that naive.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I think political prosecutions are moral abominations, ...

I recall a similar statement from the White House in 1973. But yes, so much of it is political posturing and the Starr Chamber was ultimately a harmful waste. But destroying evidence, rather than challenging the process through the courts, ought to trouble you just a little.

[imanihonjin]

I think political prosecutions are moral abominations, which is what's wrong with what Congress was doing; they're little better than Trump sometimes. We should have learned the folly of politicizing something that apes the criminal justice system from that despicable charlatan and hypocrite Ken Starr.

So you don't think Congress should oversight authority over the Executive Branch?

[Northwestcoug]

I guess I don't have the same optimism that you do that the party can turn it around. If the democrats run wild, do you think Rush and Hannity and Levin will all of the sudden become more moderate? I don't. Their shrill will just reach new levels and the party will continue to be fractured and divided.

In addition to numerous secret meetings in smoke-filled rooms that 'fix' the nominating process, my plan also places faith in a good chunk of the conservative population to start ignoring the media clowns. Right now most of the circus is showing their true colors by backing Trump. I do hope that this will be enough to break the influence the right-wing media has on the GOP.

[Topper]

I don't understand why this doesn't describe what the Trumpster is trying to do here.

I am more a student of 1935 Germany than of Italy. Germany benefited from the policies adopted by Stresemann who died prematurely. The protectionist policies of the Nazis were a mixed bag. I can't opine about 1935 Italy as I have less than a passing acquaintance with those policies.

A tax heavy, income compressed socialist state, or tax heavy, protectionist socialist state, both are crappy results.

[imanihonjin]

In addition to numerous secret meetings in smoke-filled rooms that 'fix' the nominating process, my plan also places faith in a good chunk of the conservative population to start ignoring the media clowns. Right now most of the circus is showing their true colors by backing Trump. I do hope that this will be enough to break the influence the right-wing media has on the GOP.

I hope you are right, but I just don't see it. The Rush faction thinks they have an entitlement to the Republican party and the moderates are not stupid enough to try and start their own. This means that the two will continue to fight for control of a lost party.

[SeattleUte]

Trump is a socialist as well. Voting for him or for Hillary is not a viable option. Johnson is not a socialist. Control the size of government. Control taxation. Stop unnecessary market interventions. I believe in market responses to most government responses.

You may be correct because many people simply accept without question that government will supplant the markets, that government will somehow achieve what the markets cannot. With the sense of entitlement that the Snowflake Generation holds dear, people desire the illusion of security instead of the reality of liberty and risk. If we become a one party system, it will not bode well for the quality of life.

You are correct. The best reason to oppose Trump if you're a conservative is on the merits. His nativism, protectionism--overall isolationism--and condemnation of our country's economic direction in the face of unprecedented prosperity that was created by capitalism and its constituent businesses addressing the market--pure and simple--are not in the tradition of true economic conservativism. These international trade deals that Bill and Hillary have backed and Trump condemns are not bad. And, if you're a social conservative (which I'm not), all the more reason to hate Trump--unless you're a misogynist or sexist who buys into his tarring of Hillary for what her husband is alleged to have done. The Utahns who appear ready to give Trump their state's four electoral votes are doing it for the ugliest of reasons--not because they are principled conservatives.

Republicans nominated Trump, and it happened because of Republicans' foolishness, mendacity, and poor values. Frankly, I think this whole election mess is the result of a backlash against same sex marriage, LGBTQ bathroom laws, etc. The "Christian" right cares most about it's hatreds, and whether or not Trump is clear about his position on these social issues, his supporters blame Hillary and her party and urban elites--it's a loud no vote against democrats and Republicans tolerant of this social progress.

So, given that Republicans have created this mess, they are hardly in a position to be picky about the only viable alternative to Trump qua her conservativism. Truth is she's not that far removed from her husband, the Bushes, or Obama--she is more hawkish like the Bushes.

[Topper]

In addition to numerous secret meetings in smoke-filled rooms that 'fix' the nominating process, my plan also places faith in a good chunk of the conservative population to start ignoring the media clowns. Right now most of the circus is showing their true colors by backing Trump. I do hope that this will be enough to break the influence the right-wing media has on the GOP.

But then fiscal conservatives will have no representation. A turn toward the Libertarian Party could at least create a voice for fiscal conservatives. The Democrats have no interest and no ability to represent small government, small business and fiscal conservatism.

[BlueK]

1935 Italy was a totalitarian regime, with protectionist policies. Modern day is better as a result of technology. Modern day Netherlands has some aspects of libertarianism, i.e., decriminalization of drugs, abortion, euthanasia, access to modern medicine and technology, and some measure of freedom of the press. I believe there were socialist healthcare in 1935 Italy; there certainly was in Germany at that time.

I don't understand your comparison.

Also, Holland doesn't just have "some measure" of freedom of the press and speech. It has as much of it as here, and way more than what Trump wants.