The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[wuapinmon]

Bro. Wuap warned you to be careful yet you had to respond.

Yes.

Yes, and they are paid so well, aren't they? http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/12/jpmor...e-workers.html

[Moliere]

Yes, and they are paid so well, aren't they? http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/12/jpmor...e-workers.html

$13.50/hour for a bank teller? That's not bad for a job that requires very little training and has no real physical risk attached to it. I spent 8 years as a bank teller and the main thing I worried about was carpal tunnel syndrome and running into that dumb little door I have to unlatch to go talk to the branch manager.

I won't disagree with you that company execs make too much money. Dodd-Frank tried to fix that with soem really dumb rules. The only way it'll ever be fixed is to eliminate the tax deductibility of ALL compensation over $1 million. Currently non-performance based compensation is only deductible up to $1 million/year, so what do companies do? They create things like "performance share units" that basically vest in a percentage depending on how the companies stock does relative to its peers. The trick here though is that even if the stock does average, they still come out like gangbusters and all that compensation is tax deductible because it was tied to performance.

Of course, Hillary won't cahnge that. She's bankrolled by Wall Street.

[jay santos]

I could go on and on, but I'm bored with looking up the stuff that you should read, jay.

You only addressed a small portion of my post, ie large financial companies. But, I don't think you've accomplished what you think you did. It appears that if there are valid points here from what I can see in these articles and quotes, it is in making small tweaks to the financial industry, not the large scale drastic kind of thing Bernie Sanders wants to see.

Bernie Sanders economics makes sense when you listen to sound bites, but take any poor person and let's do a deep analysis of their situation, and I'll show you 100 ways Sanders policies will make things potentially worse not better for that person. It would be like George Bailey's dream in It's a Wonderful Life...OK, you've been granted your wish, you now make $18/hr in your job for the state department shuffling papers. "Yay, let's go to Walmart and spend it!" "You don't understand, George. This is no Walmart anymore."

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Can I get a one sentence or less tl;dr for that wall of text?

[YOhio]

Can I get a one sentence or less tl;dr for that wall of text?

Wuap is looking for someone to be impressed. Tell you what, he ain't gonna find it here!

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

wuap, I'm impressed. :vanpelt:

[Sleeping in EQ]

Wuap, it's like you're trying to explain the homework to the student who didn't do the reading.

[wuapinmon]

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36890425

The problem for Mrs Clinton - and, for that matter, for Mr Sanders - is that Bernie delegates aren't particularly keen on taking orders from anyone, even the man whose campaign brought them all to Philadelphia. Self-styled revolutions can be unpredictable like that. As French journalist Jacques Mallet du Pan once wrote, they do have a tendency of devouring their children.After Mr Sanders's speech, Sanders supporters took to the convention halls to chant "We won't vote for Hillary" and "This is what democracy looks like".
Under her breath, one Clinton supporter muttered: "This is what losers look like."
The problem for the Clinton campaign, however, is that the Sanders "revolution" is refusing to acknowledge defeat.
At a Monday afternoon rally Bernie Sanders was booed by his own supporters when he told them to back Mrs Clinton. And that was just a preview of the fireworks that would take place when the convention was gavelled to order.

$13.50/hour for a bank teller? That's not bad for a job that requires very little training and has no real physical risk attached to it. I spent 8 years as a bank teller and the main thing I worried about was carpal tunnel syndrome and running into that dumb little door I have to unlatch to go talk to the branch manager.

It's not poverty, strictly speaking, and shouldn't be a career job for anyone (especially since it probably won't exist in about 20 years), but consider that the CEO of a company that employs 235,000 globally, saw profits shrink 2% and laid off over 6,000 workers last year, and yet his compensation was raised from $20 million to $27 million. If you make $13.50/hr, that's $27k a year. Chase's CEO makes that same amount in about 2 hrs. 10 mins. The pay increase will cost the company around $50 million per year. The top five executives at Chase make a combined $99 million. What's rich about all of this is that JPMorgan Chase counts J. Pierpont Morgan among its founders, and he reputedly argued that CEO pay should never exceed 20 times the average worker's pay. Not the average worker pay, but the average worker's pay, as in the lowest of the low, not all employees averaged together. You're a math whiz, if the average worker pay at JPMorgan Chase is $79k and the CEO's pay is 341x that amount, how many times higher is that than the $13.50 teller pay?

Plato told Aristotle no one should make more than five times the pay of the lowest member ofsociety. J.P. Morgan said 20 times. Jesus advocated a negative differential - that's why they killedhim. -Graef Crystal, former executive pay consultant, 1998

[jay santos]

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36890425




It's not poverty, strictly speaking, and shouldn't be a career job for anyone (especially since it probably won't exist in about 20 years), but consider that the CEO of a company that employs 235,000 globally, saw profits shrink 2% and laid off over 6,000 workers last year, and yet his compensation was raised from $20 million to $27 million. If you make $13.50/hr, that's $27k a year. Chase's CEO makes that same amount in about 2 hrs. 10 mins. The pay increase will cost the company around $50 million per year. The top five executives at Chase make a combined $99 million. What's rich about all of this is that JPMorgan Chase counts J. Pierpont Morgan among its founders, and he reputedly argued that CEO pay should never exceed 20 times the average worker's pay. Not the average worker pay, but the average worker's pay, as in the lowest of the low, not all employees averaged together. You're a math whiz, if the average worker pay at JPMorgan Chase is $79k and the CEO's pay is 341x that amount, how many times higher is that than the $13.50 teller pay?

This would be a great board presentation but makes for a shitty government policy discussion.

edit: I withdraw this statement. I have very, very strong anti-Sanders/socialism feelings. But there is a place for some gov intervention. I'm not up on all the current details to give an educated opinion. I graciously bow out.

[Uncle Ted]

It's not poverty, strictly speaking, and shouldn't be a career job for anyone (especially since it probably won't exist in about 20 years), but consider that the CEO of a company that employs 235,000 globally, saw profits shrink 2% and laid off over 6,000 workers last year, and yet his compensation was raised from $20 million to $27 million. If you make $13.50/hr, that's $27k a year. Chase's CEO makes that same amount in about 2 hrs. 10 mins. The pay increase will cost the company around $50 million per year. The top five executives at Chase make a combined $99 million. What's rich about all of this is that JPMorgan Chase counts J. Pierpont Morgan among its founders, and he reputedly argued that CEO pay should never exceed 20 times the average worker's pay. Not the average worker pay, but the average worker's pay, as in the lowest of the low, not all employees averaged together. You're a math whiz, if the average worker pay at JPMorgan Chase is $79k and the CEO's pay is 341x that amount, how many times higher is that than the $13.50 teller pay?

We should withdraw all our money from Chase. That will show those a-holes. And the next time they need a bailout... We tell them:

[creekster]

This would be a great board presentation but makes for a shitty government policy discussion.

edit: I withdraw this statement. I have very, very strong anti-Sanders/socialism feelings. But there is a place for some gov intervention. I'm not up on all the current details to give an educated opinion. I graciously bow out.

DOnt give up! I think you're right. Of course "wall street" cant be left unregulated, but the endless vilification of wall street as though it is somehow the root of all our evils is ludicrous (and I am talking to you Elizabeth Warren).

[wuapinmon]

You only addressed a small portion of my post, ie large financial companies. But, I don't think you've accomplished what you think you did. It appears that if there are valid points here from what I can see in these articles and quotes, it is in making small tweaks to the financial industry, not the large scale drastic kind of thing Bernie Sanders wants to see.

Bernie Sanders economics makes sense when you listen to sound bites, but take any poor person and let's do a deep analysis of their situation, and I'll show you 100 ways Sanders policies will make things potentially worse not better for that person. It would be like George Bailey's dream in It's a Wonderful Life...OK, you've been granted your wish, you now make $18/hr in your job for the state department shuffling papers. "Yay, let's go to Walmart and spend it!" "You don't understand, George. This is no Walmart anymore."

You're covering ground that Zizek already tilled with your George Bailey stuff. I don't feel like doing anymore on this today (I need to write), and I see that you withdrew some stuff, so I will too.

Wuap is looking for someone to be impressed. Tell you what, he ain't gonna find it here!

Can I get a one sentence or less tl;dr for that wall of text?

No.

Wuap, it's like you're trying to explain the homework to the student who didn't do the reading.

[Moliere]

It's not poverty, strictly speaking, and shouldn't be a career job for anyone (especially since it probably won't exist in about 20 years), but consider that the CEO of a company that employs 235,000 globally, saw profits shrink 2% and laid off over 6,000 workers last year, and yet his compensation was raised from $20 million to $27 million. If you make $13.50/hr, that's $27k a year. Chase's CEO makes that same amount in about 2 hrs. 10 mins. The pay increase will cost the company around $50 million per year. The top five executives at Chase make a combined $99 million. What's rich about all of this is that JPMorgan Chase counts J. Pierpont Morgan among its founders, and he reputedly argued that CEO pay should never exceed 20 times the average worker's pay. Not the average worker pay, but the average worker's pay, as in the lowest of the low, not all employees averaged together. You're a math whiz, if the average worker pay at JPMorgan Chase is $79k and the CEO's pay is 341x that amount, how many times higher is that than the $13.50 teller pay?

So what's your solution? I already gave you mine.

And yes, teller should not be a career job. There's a natural progression of promotion at a bank and the lowest position is teller. Granted most won't become branch managers without at least a finance degree, but there are plenty of better paying positions at a bank for someone that sticks it out and works hard.

[jay santos]

DOnt give up! I think you're right. Of course "wall street" cant be left unregulated, but the endless vilification of wall street as though it is somehow the root of all our evils is ludicrous (and I am talking to you Elizabeth Warren).

I just don't care enough about politics to get into the weeds on this. But I know enough about economics and business to be infuriated by Sanders and his followers.

[Moliere]

I just don't care enough about politics to get into the weeds on this. But I know enough about economics and business to be infuriated by Sanders and his followers.

yeah, they are dumb. My favorites are the movie stars (e.g. Ruffalo for one) that support Bernie but then they make up to 1,000 times more per film than the rest of the other "lesser" actors and crew.