The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[myboynoah]

HClinton promises to take steps to limit political speech. Sincere initiative or cynical move to get Bernie voters?

Hillary Clinton Pledges Constitutional Amendment To Overturn Citizens United In Her First 30 Days

Who's the Fascist now?

The Dump's a buffoon. She's more dangerous as she understands how government works and the triggers to pull.

Heil Hitlery!

htvq8Cm1.jpg

Write in Mitt!!!

[All-American]

HClinton promises to take steps to limit political speech. Sincere initiative or cynical move to get Bernie voters?

Hillary Clinton Pledges Constitutional Amendment To Overturn Citizens United In Her First 30 Days

Who's the Fascist now?

The Dump's a buffoon. She's more dangerous as she understands how government works and the triggers to pull.

Heil Hitlery!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7098[/ATTACH]

Write in Mitt!!!

Citizens United, of course, was a case about people trying to promote speech criticizing Hillary. Little wonder she'd try to get it overturned.

Sickening.

[Topper]

Hitlery is making the world less safe.

Obama and Hillary's policy have undermined Ukraine, Libya, Syria, Iraq and Turkey.

Erdogan is Obama's man, but he has sorely misjudged Erdogan's radical Islamic tendencies. Erdogan has been purging the military which is the primary source of maintaining a secular society in Turkey. He has also played a clever card demanding the cleric to be turned over to Turkey, even though there are some sources indicating the "coup" was a ploy. Erdogan will be able to use the refusal to turn over the cleric to reduce or sever ties with the US. Obama and by extension Hillary are naive and Carteresque in dealing with the Middle East. Hillary will lead to a continued deterioration of the world order, given their Neville Chamberlain tendencies, their tendencies to strike when they should hold, and to hold when they should strike. In short, they make every wrong move possible. We are much less safe because of Hillary and will become terribly unsafe with her at the helm. Trump is an awful choice, but he can't be as bad or worse in terms of foreign relations, because his people will not destabilize countries as Hillary will. But American elections are not based on foreign relations and the Left, even the Left here, are uninitiated in terms of understanding ideologies which do not operate via consensus. That is why Obama and Hillary don't get it. They understand authoritarianism in their own ranks but not abroad.

[frank ryan]

Hitlery is making the world less safe.

Obama and Hillary's policy have undermined Ukraine, Libya, Syria, Iraq and Turkey.

Erdogan is Obama's man, but he has sorely misjudged Erdogan's radical Islamic tendencies. Erdogan has been purging the military which is the primary source of maintaining a secular society in Turkey. He has also played a clever card demanding the cleric to be turned over to Turkey, even though there are some sources indicating the "coup" was a ploy. Erdogan will be able to use the refusal to turn over the cleric to reduce or sever ties with the US. Obama and by extension Hillary are naive and Carteresque in dealing with the Middle East. Hillary will lead to a continued deterioration of the world order, given their Neville Chamberlain tendencies, their tendencies to strike when they should hold, and to hold when they should strike. In short, they make every wrong move possible. We are much less safe because of Hillary and will become terribly unsafe with her at the helm. Trump is an awful choice, but he can't be as bad or worse in terms of foreign relations, because his people will not destabilize countries as Hillary will. But American elections are not based on foreign relations and the Left, even the Left here, are uninitiated in terms of understanding ideologies which do not operate via consensus. That is why Obama and Hillary don't get it. They understand authoritarianism in their own ranks but not abroad.

You are starting to sounds like Alex Jones. Erdogan isn't Obama's man and never has been. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

EDIT: You can damn well bet Trump can as bad. He will single-handedly damage NATO to the applause of Putin.

[Topper]

You are starting to sounds like Alex Jones. Erdogan isn't Obama's man and never has been. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

EDIT: You can damn well bet Trump can as bad. He will single-handedly damage NATO to the applause of Putin.

http://www.politico.eu/article/did-b...g-turkey-coup/

Though he once saw him as a potential role model for Muslim leaders, Obama now considers Erdogan a thuggish autocrat who threatens Turkey’s democracy almost as much as the generals who tried to overthrow him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7139861.html

Obama already damaged NATO by pulling the missile defense from Poland.

Obama has wrongly identified the good leaders. Erdogan was a model for Muslim leaders in his mind. ISIS was the junior varsity. Destabilizing Libya was a good idea. Ending Iraqi support in the north of Iraq was a good idea.

Obama and Hillary by extension are foreign relations morons.

Obama's claim to fame, returning billions to Iran on the promise, wink-wink, Iran won't develop a nuclear bomb. Opening up Cuba?! WTF. The statists among claim to world citizens but you sure have blinders on. Every major decision made by Obama has been short-sighted and ill-advised. He hasn't gotten any of these correct.

[frank ryan]

http://www.politico.eu/article/did-b...g-turkey-coup/



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7139861.html

Obama already damaged NATO by pulling the missile defense from Poland.

Obama has wrongly identified the good leaders. Erdogan was a model for Muslim leaders in his mind. ISIS was the junior varsity. Destabilizing Libya was a good idea. Ending Iraqi support in the north of Iraq was a good idea.

Obama and Hillary by extension are foreign relations morons.

Obama's claim to fame, returning billions to Iran on the promise, wink-wink, Iran won't develop a nuclear bomb. Opening up Cuba?! WTF. The statists among claim to world citizens but you sure have blinders on. Every major decision made by Obama has been short-sighted and ill-advised. He hasn't gotten any of these correct.

It's like you read about a negative current event and then run to this thread to post how Obama is responsible for it. He isn't running for president. And Obama didn't damage NATO. But Trump will. Trump's campaign architect is a guy who is bff's with Putin and helped the Kremlin-puppet government in Ukraine come to power. I would hope you would find that troubling but you likely won't, seeing as you said you would prefer Putin be president of the US rather than Clinton.

For someone who claims they find Trump distasteful, you spend a lot of time defending him.

[Topper]

It's like you read about a negative current event and then run to this thread to post how Obama is responsible for it. He isn't running for president. And Obama didn't damage NATO. But Trump will. Trump's campaign architect is a guy who is bff's with Putin and helped the Kremlin-puppet government in Ukraine come to power. I would hope you would find that troubling but you likely won't, seeing as you said you would prefer Putin be president of the US rather than Clinton.

For someone who claims they find Trump distasteful, you spend a lot of time defending him.

I cannot defend the indefensible. Trump will be a disaster. The only chance of him not being awful, would be the appointment of GOP establishment types who will do the right thing. That is a slim chance but it is better than none. So there is no chance Trump will do the right thing, but his appointees might. It is not something I would bet my life on.

Hillary by being in bed with Obama has zero chances of doing the right things. Democrats do not have good foreign relations types, so it is certain her appointees will do the wrong thing at the wrong time. To make as many wrong decisions as Obama has made, is an artform. If you had put up a dart board, you would have a better chance of doing the right thing than Obama. Is he purposefully trying to screw up? I can't believe that, but wonder where in the hell he is getting advice from. Kerry must be a complete moron.

So we are left with somebody certain to undermine our safety and determined to screw things up in Hillary, or an idiot who might appoint some non-idiots. I loathe both of those options.

You don't believe the mess we have in Ukraine hasn't damaged NATO? Huh? You don't read much.

[frank ryan]

I cannot defend the indefensible. Trump will be a disaster. The only chance of him not being awful, would be the appointment of GOP establishment types who will do the right thing. That is a slim chance but it is better than none. So there is no chance Trump will do the right thing, but his appointees might. It is not something I would bet my life on.

Hillary by being in bed with Obama has zero chances of doing the right things. Democrats do not have good foreign relations types, so it is certain her appointees will do the wrong thing at the wrong time.

So we are left with somebody certain to undermine our safety and determined to screw things up in Hillary, or an idiot who might appoint some non-idiots. I loathe both of those options.

You don't believe the mess we have in Ukraine hasn't damaged NATO? Huh? You don't read much.

Mitt was right about Russia. Obama was far too passive. Trump, would be worse, because he wants to be friends with Russia at the expense of NATO. He has already started making bombastic statements about its future. Did you know Obama does not like Hillary at all? They aren't idealogical twins.

[Topper]

Mitt was right about Russia. Obama was far too passive. Trump, would be worse, because he wants to be friends with Russia at the expense of NATO. He has already started making bombastic statements about its future. Did you know Obama does not like Hillary at all? They aren't idealogical twins.

She also backed out on Poland. She masterminded the disaster which is Libya and had input into Syria. She is a foreign relations moron, but believes she is a know-it-all and will not consider the advice of others. I fear she may start World War III. Maybe not. But if it is started, it will be her bad decisions which lead to it.

[YOhio]

Libertarians argue who is worse.

https://reason.com/archives/2016/07/...ump-whos-worse

[frank ryan]

She also backed out on Poland. She masterminded the disaster which is Libya and had input into Syria. She is a foreign relations moron, but believes she is a know-it-all and will not consider the advice of others. I fear she may start World War III. Maybe not. But if it is started, it will be her bad decisions which lead to it.

She didn't mastermind Libya. She is also not a clueless moron. That designation should be saved for Trump or Palin. The US wanted to stay out of Libya and let France and UK handle it but they weren't able to do it without the US. What should we have done in Syria? Bombed Assad? Joined forces with him? Trump would like to team up with Putin and Assad.

[PaloAltoCougar]

The parallels between the Summer o' 68 and the next couple of weeks are going to be interesting. In '68, following the assassinations of Bobby Kennedy and Dr. MLK, violent protests were a near daily occurrence. The Dem Convention in Chicago was overwhelmed with protests against a foreign war and over civil rights. Nixon/Agnew spoke incessantly about "law and order", a phrase Trump has trotted out the past couple days with Pence. Throughout my late teens, I was fascinated by the Chicago 7 trial (originally Chicago 8 but Bobby Seale got his own trial) and how the period was fraught with overreactions from all side. There's little doubt we're in for more.

[Topper]

Libertarians argue who is worse.

https://reason.com/archives/2016/07/...ump-whos-worse

Some highlights.

So bottom line, I think that when the time comes to go into the voting booth and make a decision, I will just kill myself. Dave Barry

It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it. Dave Boaz

I favor Trump over Clinton, on the theory that he will bring in a fresh crop of thieves, while Hillary will enable the current crop to burrow in deeper. Glen Cropper

It's just too horrible a choice to contemplate and I can't make a decision. I know Hillary will be bad. She wants to micromanage all life. John Stossel

[Topper]

She didn't mastermind Libya. She is also not a clueless moron. That designation should be saved for Trump or Palin. The US wanted to stay out of Libya and let France and UK handle it but they weren't able to do it without the US. What should we have done in Syria? Bombed Assad? Joined forces with him? Trump would like to team up with Putin and Assad.

You have no evidence that she is anything other than a clueless moron in terms of international relations. She favored Muslim spring and promoted the undermining of Quaddafi amongst the allies. She had no clue that the proponents were radical Islamicists. She would be as Obama is, "ISIS is the junior varsisty." Hillary is the Anti-Christ, and Obama her John the Baptist.

Of course one should not have joined with Putin or Assad, but one should have supported more forcefully those who both oppose ISIS and Assad. Don't be daft.

[Topper]

The parallels between the Summer o' 68 and the next couple of weeks are going to be interesting. In '68, following the assassinations of Bobby Kennedy and Dr. MLK, violent protests were a near daily occurrence. The Dem Convention in Chicago was overwhelmed with protests against a foreign war and over civil rights. Nixon/Agnew spoke incessantly about "law and order", a phrase Trump has trotted out the past couple days with Pence. Throughout my late teens, I was fascinated by the Chicago 7 trial (originally Chicago 8 but Bobby Seale got his own trial) and how the period was fraught with overreactions from all side. There's little doubt we're in for more.

Constance Lundberg used Bobby Seale as an example of the rule of law not working when the governed cease to ignore the authority of the governors. I would like to read up more on that trial, if you have a recommendation.