The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Topper]

A lot of those voters had never voted in a primary before. Hard to say what party they really belong to, IMO.

The Dems have it easy. All they must do is to promise free goodies for which they will tax others. That, and calling anybody who does not agree with a socialist, progressive agenda as a racist, and you have their winning formula. Bernie tapped into the mainline argument for their voter appeal and success. Promise people "free" stuff. It's kinda like when your sister has Dad's credit card and she is taking you to the mall, everybody feels like it is a holiday.

The GOP has it difficult. You tell people, we don't want to give you stuff, because there is a price tag attached, and each of us must eventually pay part of the bill. And, we don't want a nanny state looking over everybody's shoulders, but people should have choices and then pay for those things themselves. That attracts more responsible and productive persons, but there appears to be a decline in the percentages of the population that fit that description.

Let's say, "free stuff", or "it costs a lot, we must be careful with our resources." I don't see how the GOP has ever won. I am aware that Dems have much more sophisticated language to guilt people into wanting everybody to have free stuff, but pared down to its core, that's the basic philosophy. We should have a nanny state that is grossly expensive but which we be advertised as free. Bernie turned up the heat on how much free stuff should be advertised and we will continue to see more advertised. I am concerned for the welfare of my grandchildren with this mentality.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Without invoking the name of Hillary Clinton, see if you can effectively dispute any of the main points of this piece. I don't think it can credibly be done since all of this can easily be traced to Trump's own words and behaviors.


In the end I think it makes a strong argument for why it's not good thinking that somehow the system will magically keep him under control:

"Some — including many who will be voting for Trump — will argue that even if the unstable, sleepless, vindictive tyrant wins on Tuesday, he will be restrained by the system when he seizes power. Let’s game this out for a moment. Over the last year, which forces in the GOP have been able to stand up to him? Even his closest aides have been unable to get him to concentrate before a debate. He set up a policy advisory apparatus and then completely ignored it until it was disbanded. His foreign-policy advisers can scarcely be found. He says he knows more than any general, any diplomat, and anyone with actual experience in government. He has declared his chief adviser to be himself. Even the criminal Richard Nixon was eventually restrained and dispatched by a Republican Establishment that still knew how to run the country and had a loyalty to broader American institutions. Such an Establishment no longer exists."

"What is so striking is that this requires no interpretation, no reading of the tea leaves. Trump has told Americans all of this — again and again — in plain English. His own temperamental instability has been displayed daily and in gory detail. From time to time, you can see his poll ratings plummet as revelations that would permanently sink any other candidate have dented his appeal. And then he resiliently and unstoppably moves back up. His bond with his supporters is absolute, total, and personal. It was months ago that he boasted that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his supporters would still be with him. And he was right. This is not a mark of a democratic leader; it is a mark of an authoritarian cult."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...the-abyss.html

On the seemingly endless list of reasons not to vote for Trump, at or near the top is how he would react to an offense (perceived or real) by a foreign nation. For now, Drumpf's only weapons of revenge are his overstated wealth, his Twitter account and a microphone. Imagine what he could do with the world's most powerful armed forces and the nuclear codes.

Remember that after being asked his favorite scripture, and an initial dumbbell response of "All of 'em!", he eventually cited "An eye for an eye" as his favorite, despite the fact that, as a professed Christian, his Lord rendered that verse obsolete. But Drumpf really means it, as evidenced by his behavior and his words, e.g., "Get even with people. If they screw you, screw them back 10 times as hard. I really believe that."

Even as a kid, I thought the Dems' characterization of Goldwater as a madman bent on nuclear war was unfounded and over-the-top. I think they're much closer to the frightening truth this time around.

[Uncle Ted]

Even as a kid, I thought the Dems' characterization of Goldwater as a madman bent on nuclear war was unfounded and over-the-top. I think they're much closer to the frightening truth this time around.

Daisy 2.0

[BlueK]

The Dems have it easy. All they must do is to promise free goodies for which they will tax others. That, and calling anybody who does not agree with a socialist, progressive agenda as a racist, and you have their winning formula. Bernie tapped into the mainline argument for their voter appeal and success. Promise people "free" stuff. It's kinda like when your sister has Dad's credit card and she is taking you to the mall, everybody feels like it is a holiday.

The GOP has it difficult. You tell people, we don't want to give you stuff, because there is a price tag attached, and each of us must eventually pay part of the bill. And, we don't want a nanny state looking over everybody's shoulders, but people should have choices and then pay for those things themselves. That attracts more responsible and productive persons, but there appears to be a decline in the percentages of the population that fit that description.

Let's say, "free stuff", or "it costs a lot, we must be careful with our resources." I don't see how the GOP has ever won. I am aware that Dems have much more sophisticated language to guilt people into wanting everybody to have free stuff, but pared down to its core, that's the basic philosophy. We should have a nanny state that is grossly expensive but which we be advertised as free. Bernie turned up the heat on how much free stuff should be advertised and we will continue to see more advertised. I am concerned for the welfare of my grandchildren with this mentality.

Trump's hardcore followers also expect free stuff too. They just come with the added passion and anger that the mexicans and black people as they perceive it are getting more of the free stuff than they are.

Trump's answer to them is he'll repeal obamacare and replace it with universal health care that is way better. The only difference I can see is that he's getting rid of the plan that must be bad because it was Obama's plan and Trump's must be better because it would come from him and not Obama.

Like most historical fascists, it's not really about any discernable ideology other than blame some other group for all your problems. It's just just a personality cult based on playing on the fears of the vulnerable, and promising that only he can fix everything. We've seen this before. Unfortunately so many of his people were behind the school, smoking during history class to remember the lesson.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Daisy 2.0

...

An homage, such as it is, to one of the most famous and controversial campaign ads of all time. I've thought a lot the past several months about the Goldwater/Trump comparison, wondering if my antipathy toward Trump is as intellectually dishonest as was the campaign against Goldwater. I still wonder about that, but there are huge differences between the two, and I would be deeply concerned by a Trump presidency. President Clinton Part Deux will undoubtedly do a lot of things I'll object to, but I doubt any of them will pose an existential threat or even keep me up at night.

[frank ryan]

The Dems have it easy. All they must do is to promise free goodies for which they will tax others. That, and calling anybody who does not agree with a socialist, progressive agenda as a racist, and you have their winning formula. Bernie tapped into the mainline argument for their voter appeal and success. Promise people "free" stuff. It's kinda like when your sister has Dad's credit card and she is taking you to the mall, everybody feels like it is a holiday.

The GOP has it difficult. You tell people, we don't want to give you stuff, because there is a price tag attached, and each of us must eventually pay part of the bill. And, we don't want a nanny state looking over everybody's shoulders, but people should have choices and then pay for those things themselves. That attracts more responsible and productive persons, but there appears to be a decline in the percentages of the population that fit that description.

Let's say, "free stuff", or "it costs a lot, we must be careful with our resources." I don't see how the GOP has ever won. I am aware that Dems have much more sophisticated language to guilt people into wanting everybody to have free stuff, but pared down to its core, that's the basic philosophy. We should have a nanny state that is grossly expensive but which we be advertised as free. Bernie turned up the heat on how much free stuff should be advertised and we will continue to see more advertised. I am concerned for the welfare of my grandchildren with this mentality.

Self-identified Trump supporters don't seem to be traditional conservatives. Many of them are nativists,or racists or edgy emotionally stunted adults who are prone to conspiracy theories. You don't see a lot of economic masterminds who excited about Trump's fiscal policies.

[Uncle Ted]

Self-identified Trump supporters don't seem to be traditional conservatives. Many of them are nativists,or racists or edgy emotionally stunted adults who are prone to conspiracy theories. You don't see a lot of economic masterminds who excited about Trump's fiscal policies.

Considering the amount of UFO conspiracy email that Podesta gets he must be a Trump supporter... Did Hillary know this when she hired him?

[PaloAltoCougar]

BTW, if anyone (I suspect the numbers are few) would like a quick history lesson on Goldwater, the 1964 campaign and the political climate in the early '60s, including a brief note about Hillary Clinton's time as a Goldwater Girl, I strongly recommend this interesting piece from Reason.

[Uncle Ted]

BTW, if anyone (I suspect the numbers are few) would like a quick history lesson on Goldwater, the 1964 campaign and the political climate in the early '60s, including a brief note about Hillary Clinton's time as a Goldwater Girl, I strongly recommend this interest piece from Reason.

Reason? Who reads that Libertarian crap?

[Applejack]

Self-identified Trump supporters don't seem to be traditional conservatives. Many of them are nativists,or racists or edgy emotionally stunted adults who are prone to conspiracy theories. You don't see a lot of economic masterminds who excited about Trump's fiscal policies.

Trump supporters are different than Trump voters.

[Eddie]

... I am concerned for the welfare of my grandchildren with this mentality.

No reason to worry. As you describe it, there will be plenty of welfare to go around for your grandchildren too!

[BlueK]

Trump supporters are different than Trump voters.

I will somewhat defend our friend to this extent: half of Trump's voters are the hardcore crazies, the other are reasonable mainstream Republicans who tried to vote for anyone else they could in the primaries but for some reason can't avoid voting for the nominee because they think Hillary is worse. The problem is, every vote for him is going to look to Trump like a mandate. He's incapable of thinking anything else of himself. And he doesn't represent normal Republican ideology any better than Hillary does.

[frank ryan]

Trump supporters are different than Trump voters.

Yeah, that is why I didn't say people "voting for Trump."

[Moliere]

Yep. Funny/sad/disturbing how gullible trump supporters are. I bet moliere71 has even linked a few of these.

At least I have faith in the American people doing the right thing by keeping Trump from the presidency.


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[Applejack]

At least I have faith in the American people doing the right thing by keeping Trump from the presidency.


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But I don't think that Utah will follow our example