The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Topper]

This fiasco with Russia is annoying on so many levels. A few points.

1- I don't understand what anyone means when they say Russia hacked the election. If Russia actually hacked into voting machines and undermined the integrity of the vote count, then this is an act of war and immediate response is required. But this didn't happen. They were involved in spreading propaganda, much of which was obtained through hacking. Yes it's infuriating that Russia pulled it off, but only those who didn't respect Russia as a formidable adversary are surprised they would/could do this.

2- I don't understand why Trump is being blamed (aside from his dipshit compliments of Putin). If anyone deserves blame here it's the President. Serious. President Obama should have received intelligence of a state-sponsored effort to sway the U.S. election and then he should have destroyed that effort. If he did not receive that intelligence, then the President should be blamed for a shitty IC after 8 years in office.

3- Clinton hurt herself way more than the Russians. She ran a lazy campaign and didn't put in the effort required to win. Putin didn't say he was going to put coal companies out of business. Clinton did. Putin didn't call half of Trump supporters irredeemable deplorables. Clinton did. Putin didn't use a private server to avoid FOIA and FRA requirements. Clinton did. She ran a safe space campaign from and for the coasts and lost as a result.

4- The current effort by Dems to shame the GOP for lack of outrage is all show and no substance. If Russia's activity was truly material to the outcome of the election then they should be calling for a response from the President. Take it to the U.N. Call for sanctions. Embargo Russian trade. Freeze Russian holdings in the U.S. Do something that will harm the country that many blame for Donald Trump. But this isn't happening. Instead the Dems are using it to harm the GOP, showing that they really don't believe what they're selling.

5- This is a good lesson in foreign policy realism. Russian audacity comes after 8 years of U.S. weakness and apologizing. The list is long; Clinton's reset button, killing missile defense shield, Obama's flexibility, denunciation of Romney, Syrian red-line, etc.

6- Trump and some of his confidants and (potential) cabinet members really concern me in regards to Russia. Michael Flynn is an asshole and worked for RT. It also seems that likely SoS nominee Rex Tillerson is also a Putin friend, though I am comforted that he was recommended by Condi Rice and Robert Gates.

I don't believe many people are watching or that many people care. The election is over so most people don't care what the Dems do, or what their new networks s

[Maximus]

This fiasco with Russia is annoying on so many levels. A few points.

1- I don't understand what anyone means when they say Russia hacked the election. If Russia actually hacked into voting machines and undermined the integrity of the vote count, then this is an act of war and immediate response is required. But this didn't happen. They were involved in spreading propaganda, much of which was obtained through hacking. Yes it's infuriating that Russia pulled it off, but only those who didn't respect Russia as a formidable adversary are surprised they would/could do this.

2- I don't understand why Trump is being blamed (aside from his dipshit compliments of Putin). If anyone deserves blame here it's the President. Serious. President Obama should have received intelligence of a state-sponsored effort to sway the U.S. election and then he should have destroyed that effort. If he did not receive that intelligence, then the President should be blamed for a shitty IC after 8 years in office.

3- Clinton hurt herself way more than the Russians. She ran a lazy campaign and didn't put in the effort required to win. Putin didn't say he was going to put coal companies out of business. Clinton did. Putin didn't call half of Trump supporters irredeemable deplorables. Clinton did. Putin didn't use a private server to avoid FOIA and FRA requirements. Clinton did. She ran a safe space campaign from and for the coasts and lost as a result.

4- The current effort by Dems to shame the GOP for lack of outrage is all show and no substance. If Russia's activity was truly material to the outcome of the election then they should be calling for a response from the President. Take it to the U.N. Call for sanctions. Embargo Russian trade. Freeze Russian holdings in the U.S. Do something that will harm the country that many blame for Donald Trump. But this isn't happening. Instead the Dems are using it to harm the GOP, showing that they really don't believe what they're selling.

5- This is a good lesson in foreign policy realism. Russian audacity comes after 8 years of U.S. weakness and apologizing. The list is long; Clinton's reset button, killing missile defense shield, Obama's flexibility, denunciation of Romney, Syrian red-line, etc.

6- Trump and some of his confidants and (potential) cabinet members really concern me in regards to Russia. Michael Flynn is an asshole and worked for RT. It also seems that likely SoS nominee Rex Tillerson is also a Putin friend, though I am comforted that he was recommended by Condi Rice and Robert Gates.

No one is blaming Trump for the hacking. The bigger issue imo, like you said, are the Russia buddies in the cabinet and trumps refusal to listen to the thoughts of the cia. Also doesn't take his intelligence briefings "because he is smart"

[Northwestcoug]

4- The current effort by Dems to shame the GOP for lack of outrage is all show and no substance. If Russia's activity was truly material to the outcome of the election then they should be calling for a response from the President. Take it to the U.N. Call for sanctions. Embargo Russian trade. Freeze Russian holdings in the U.S. Do something that will harm the country that many blame for Donald Trump. But this isn't happening. Instead the Dems are using it to harm the GOP, showing that they really don't believe what they're selling.

There will always be politics. But that doesn't stop the GOP from looking into it domestically. Sure, embargo the Russians, freeze the holdings, do something that has teeth but dial it back from a war if the hack was serious. But if the GOP wants to transcend politics (as it should, even if the dems wouldn't), start the hearings.

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[fusnik]

1. I don't really understand what you are saying here
2. Trump encouraged hackers to hack Hillary. When the DHS said that Russia was meddling in our election in October he said that it wasn't true.
3. Clinton was an awful candidate. The silver lining for most democrats is that we can officially put the Clintons to pasture.
4. We already have sanctions and additional sanctions would require an executive order that may have diluted the current sanctions because of Ukraine.
5. I don't think most people believe the apology and weakness deal. During the Obama years we killed dictators, got Bin Laden, killed thousands with drone strikes, haven't left the Middle East, didn't close Gitmo, deported thousands, etc.
6. Imagine for a second if Hillary was saying nice things about Putin, had a campaign manager with criminal ties to the Russia, pegged a former Russian state employee as NSA, and chose a SOS who received a medal from Putin and is hoping that sanctions are removed so that business can continue with Russia.

This is an absolute freak show.

Was it Michael Morell that said that Trump might be an unwitting agent for Russia.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This fiasco with Russia is annoying on so many levels. A few points.

1- I don't understand what anyone means when they say Russia hacked the election. If Russia actually hacked into voting machines and undermined the integrity of the vote count, then this is an act of war and immediate response is required. But this didn't happen. They were involved in spreading propaganda, much of which was obtained through hacking. Yes it's infuriating that Russia pulled it off, but only those who didn't respect Russia as a formidable adversary are surprised they would/could do this.

Red herring. Nobody has claimed that they altered the vote count, and that fact doesn't alter the reality that they may have influenced the outcome of a US election. That should be deeply troubling to everyone.

2- I don't understand why Trump is being blamed (aside from his dipshit compliments of Putin). If anyone deserves blame here it's the President. Serious. President Obama should have received intelligence of a state-sponsored effort to sway the U.S. election and then he should have destroyed that effort. If he did not receive that intelligence, then the President should be blamed for a shitty IC after 8 years in office.

Good grief. That's a Sean Hannity take.

3- Clinton hurt herself way more than the Russians. She ran a lazy campaign and didn't put in the effort required to win. Putin didn't say he was going to put coal companies out of business. Clinton did. Putin didn't call half of Trump supporters irredeemable deplorables. Clinton did. Putin didn't use a private server to avoid FOIA and FRA requirements. Clinton did. She ran a safe space campaign from and for the coasts and lost as a result.

More red herrings. The fact that Clinton did some dumb things doesn't minimize what is being alleged against the Russians at all. You are promoting a faulty line of reasoning that we have seen countless times since the election: one factor or set of factors trumps all others when it comes to explaining the election outcome. In reality, a large number of things combined to produce the Trump win. Russian tinkering being one of those.

Furthermore, the CIA reports that the Russians deliberately leaked DNC emails about the private server fiasco to keep it in the limelight, all the while not releasing anything from the RNC servers. So yes, the private server fiasco had an impact, but that impact was amplified by the Russians.

4- The current effort by Dems to shame the GOP for lack of outrage is all show and no substance. If Russia's activity was truly material to the outcome of the election then they should be calling for a response from the President. Take it to the U.N. Call for sanctions. Embargo Russian trade. Freeze Russian holdings in the U.S. Do something that will harm the country that many blame for Donald Trump. But this isn't happening. Instead the Dems are using it to harm the GOP, showing that they really don't believe what they're selling.

5- This is a good lesson in foreign policy realism. Russian audacity comes after 8 years of U.S. weakness and apologizing. The list is long; Clinton's reset button, killing missile defense shield, Obama's flexibility, denunciation of Romney, Syrian red-line, etc.

More Hannity-speak. WTH is Obama going to do at this point? He is one month away from leaving office. Everything you are describing would require a sustained effort over a period of time, with deep analysis of intel, working closely with the CIA. Obama is in no position to do that and sadly, Trump will have zero initiative to do so.

What a mess.

[creekster]

Good grief. That's a Sean Hannity take.

Even a stopped watch....

the CIA reports that the Russians deliberately leaked DNC emails about the private server fiasco to keep it in the limelight, all the while not releasing anything from the RNC servers. So yes, the private server fiasco had an impact, but that impact was amplified by the Russians.

Are you aware of evidence that the Russians had RNC emails but didn't reveal them? I haven't seen this anywhere else. That would be significant, for several reasons.

more Hannity-speak. WTH is Obama going to do at this point? He is one month away from leaving office. Everything you are describing would require a sustained effort over a period of time, with deep analysis of intel, working closely with the CIA. Obama is in no position to do that and sadly, Trump will have zero initiative to do so.

What a mess.

good point. I guess Obama should just leave for hawaii today. WHy even bother with the next 6 weeks or so?

Of course he can do things. If this intelligence is as good as it is being porotrayed, and we can trace it right back to Russia, then he needs to act asap. I would not be surprised, in fact, if he isnt already doing something covertly, in the cyber realm, to cause problems for the Russians. (again, assuming the intel is as good as it is claimed ot be)

[byu71]

My own opinion is Trump is a dope to continue to tweet about this. Let his surrogates speak to it if they must.

If true that no one thinks it altered the race, then why does the Trump team give it more air time by commenting.

Reince Priebus made chuckie todd look like an idiot on the subject.

Let CNN and MSNBC go on and on about it. I think Trump has more twitter followers than they have viewers. He should tweet if he is going to about positive things.

[Northwestcoug]

Ten electors want intelligence briefing on potential Russia hack before electoral college vote. It should be noted that 9 are democrats and one is republican, who has already said he won't vote for Trump. So yeah, politics.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...ing-on-russian

[Jeff Lebowski]

Are you aware of evidence that the Russians had RNC emails but didn't reveal them? I haven't seen this anywhere else. That would be significant, for several reasons.

It has been all over the news over the weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us...e-iphone-share

WASHINGTON — American intelligence agencies have concluded with “high confidence” that Russia acted covertly in the latter stages of the presidential campaign to harm Hillary Clinton’s chances and promote Donald J. Trump, according to senior administration officials.

They based that conclusion, in part, on another finding — which they say was also reached with high confidence — that the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.

Of course he can do things. If this intelligence is as good as it is being porotrayed, and we can trace it right back to Russia, then he needs to act asap. I would not be surprised, in fact, if he isnt already doing something covertly, in the cyber realm, to cause problems for the Russians. (again, assuming the intel is as good as it is claimed ot be)

Sure, he should do whatever he can, but his options will be limited. Meanwhile, the POTUS-elect is out there undermining the CIA, the very organization that works to provide the executive branch with critical intel to run the country. How would you like to be a CIA employee right now?

[byu71]

It has been all over the news over the weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us...e-iphone-share

I am pretty sure the FBI did not state the RNC was hacked. Priebus is stating they weren't hacked.

I guess it comes down to who you want to believe, the NY Times and unnamed sources or unnamed administration officials or Priebus (sp).

[Uncle Ted]

Red herring. Nobody has claimed that they altered the vote count, and that fact doesn't alter the reality that they may have influenced the outcome of a US election. That should be deeply troubling to everyone.

So the government has proof that the Ruskies phished the "p@ssw0rd" from that complete dumbass Podesta? What is more deeply troubling to me is that sh*theads like Podesta and Hillary Clinton are allowed to go anywhere near a computer. At least Trump is smart enough to not use them. That is about the only thing he has going for him.

Good grief. That's a Sean Hannity take.

More red herrings. The fact that Clinton did some dumb things doesn't minimize what is being alleged against the Russians at all. You are promoting a faulty line of reasoning that we have seen countless times since the election: one factor or set of factors trumps all others when it comes to explaining the election outcome. In reality, a large number of things combined to produce the Trump win. Russian tinkering being one of those.

Furthermore, the CIA reports that the Russians deliberately leaked DNC emails about the private server fiasco to keep it in the limelight, all the while not releasing anything from the RNC servers. So yes, the private server fiasco had an impact, but that impact was amplified by the Russians.



More Hannity-speak. WTH is Obama going to do at this point? He is one month away from leaving office. Everything you are describing would require a sustained effort over a period of time, with deep analysis of intel, working closely with the CIA. Obama is in no position to do that and sadly, Trump will have zero initiative to do so.

What a mess.

Good hell... When did you start watching Hannity?

The thing Clinton did with the private email server isn't just some dumb thing. That is yuge.

So the CIA released some reports? Links please. Or is that all just democratic hearsay?

[creekster]

It has been all over the news over the weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us...e-iphone-share






Sure, he should do whatever he can, but his options will be limited. Meanwhile, the POTUS-elect is out there undermining the CIA, the very organization that works to provide the executive branch with critical intel to run the country. How would you like to be a CIA employee right now?

Youre right about the RNC beign hacked, allegedly. I just wasnt reading the news much this weekend. I missed it.

I think youve put your finger on the real problem; Obama can do a lot but there is no way to know what Trump will continue. It would be a bad idea to start but then retract some sort of punishment effort. Trump is awful, but Obama is weak.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Good hell... When did you start watching Hannity?

The thing Clinton did with the private email server isn't just some dumb thing. That is yuge.

Yes, it was huge. No doubt about it. Trump had numerous flaws and issues that were also huge. One of those was repetitively amplified by info leaked by Russians hackers and one was not.

[Uncle Ted]

I am pretty sure the FBI did not state the RNC was hacked. Priebus is stating they weren't hacked.

I guess it comes down to who you want to believe, the NY Times and unnamed sources or unnamed administration officials or Priebus (sp).

Yeah, the RNC wasn't hacked... They didn't fall for those stupid phishing tricks.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/prieb...ry?id=44124097


Edit: It is funny that George Stupidopoulos asks "Do you know where all your data is stored?" Reince Priebus should have said, "Well George, we know it wasn't stored on some private server that was hosted on some backroom 'Mom-n-pop' ISP. Of course, we are not sending around top secret department of state information either."

[Moliere]

Looks like we found the Dem's Benghazi


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