The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Applejack]

Thankfully? Bush v Clinton in 2016? No thanks.

Those seem like the two sanest people running to me.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Thankfully? Bush v Clinton in 2016? No thanks.

I don't like it either, but it's better than Clinton vs. Huckabee/Paul/Perry. Supposedly, Walker is getting a little bit of momentum at this very early part of the race. That's important, because he needs to be viewed as a viable candidate with support to attract money.

[Uncle Ted]

Obama's quote is somewhat defensible. This was before Lancet retracted the article that made the most publicized link between autism and vaccines.

There's no excuse for Paul to be spouting off anecdotes. He should know better. Unfortunately, he doesn't. Goodbye, Paul.

Y'all need to read the rest of his comments...

On Monday, Sen. Rand Paul said that he'd heard of "many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines" — a concern that has not been substantiated despite years and years of scientific research into the topic.


Throughout his comments during an interview on CNBC, Paul maintained, "I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think they're a good thing." He called them "one of the biggest medical breakthroughs we've had," and added, "I think public awareness of how good vaccines are for kids and how they are good for public health is a great idea."

http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7966839/...accines-autism

Here is the entire context...

Q: Senator, maybe you're not aware, but there's a huge problem right now with Disney theme parks having to close down because of mumps. Not enough children being vaccinated against measles, mumps, and rubella because their parents for whatever reason have decided that it is voluntary. And I can tell you plenty of the people who I work with are really concerned about their kids getting sick at school.


PAUL: Here's the thing is, I think vaccines are one of the biggest medical breakthroughs that we've had. I'm a big fan and a great fan of the history and the development of the smallpox vaccine for example. But for most of our history they have been voluntary, so I don't think I'm arguing for anything out of the ordinary, we're arguing for what most of our history has had.


Q: I understand you're all for the choice. But again, if we're left in a situation where diseases that were once almost wiped out are now coming back because people are deciding not to vaccinate their kids, isn't that a problem?


PAUL: I think public awareness of how good vaccines are for kids and how they are good for public health is a great idea. We just appointed a Surgeon General. These are some of the things that are things that we should promote as good for our health. But I don't think there's anything extraordinary about resorting to freedom. I'll give you a good example. The Hepatitis B vaccine is now given to newborns, we sometimes give 5 and 6 vaccines all at one time. I chose to have mine delayed. I don't want the government telling me that I have to give my newborn a Hepatitis B vaccine which is transmitted by sexually transmitted disease, and/or blood transfusions. Do I think it's ultimately a good idea? Yeah. And I've had mine staggered over several months.


I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines. I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea, I think they're a good thing. But I think the parent should have some input. The state doesn't own your children. Parents own the children and it is an issue of freedom.

I read that Rand Paul vaccinated his own children somewhere else. He is just saying that if parents don't want to vaccinate their children and let them die of a preventable disease then they have that right.

One would think that pediatricians and subspecialists would all vaccinate their children 100% for all preventable diseases. That is not the case... http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...2#.VND67lr5m-J

In fact, 12% of the pediatricians and specialists survey said they wouldn't give their own the Rotavirus vaccine. That seems somewhat significant among this demographic.

[byu71]

Those seem like the two sanest people running to me.

I think you are right, although I am going to pay attention to Walker and I really like Ohio's govenor.

On the dem side I am comparing Hillary to Liz Warren. Holy crap she is a wacko in the fine political tradition of wacko's like Ted Cruz. She thinks she is the Florence Nightengale for the middle class.

[Northwestcoug]

Y'all need to read the rest of his comments...


http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7966839/...accines-autism

Here is the entire context...



I read that Rand Paul vaccinated his own children somewhere else. He is just saying that if parents don't want to vaccinate their children and let them die of a preventable disease then they have that right.

One would think that pediatricians and subspecialists would all vaccinate their children 100% for all preventable diseases. That is not the case... http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...2#.VND67lr5m-J

In fact, 12% of the pediatricians and specialists survey said they wouldn't give their own the Rotavirus vaccine. That seems somewhat significant among this demographic.

About 95% of his quote is reasonable. But for a physician to spout off the "profound mental disorders after vaccines" is off the charts irresponsible. Even if he's on record as pro-vaccination, his lip service to the anecdotal causation of vaccines to mental disorders links him to the nutter crowd. Like I said, he should know better.

And another libertarian goes down. Which is sad because I really do identify with a lot of their issues.

[TripletDaddy]

While we're all wondering about all the idiots running on the GOP side, let's also savor Al Sharpton's run from a few years ago and that he has a platform on the Democrats' official network.

Rand Paul has always been a nonstarter because he's Ron Paul's son, who's a certified nut. I'm glad the vaccine talk may sink his campaign.

The nomination is going to come down to Bush or Walker, thankfully.

Al Sharpton is a fringe idiot. He hasnt been elected governor. He isn't a serious candidate for any office. Rick Perry has been elected governor of one of the largest electoral college states in the country (but not the largest....lol @ texas )

[Eddie]

About 95% of his quote is reasonable. But for a physician to spout off the "profound mental disorders after vaccines" is off the charts irresponsible. Even if he's on record as pro-vaccination, his lip service to the anecdotal causation of vaccines to mental disorders links him to the nutter crowd. Like I said, he should know better.

And another libertarian goes down. Which is sad because I really do identify with a lot of their issues.

Even if he had just said "I can understand how some parents would have concerns about immunizing their children after hearing stories of..." then he would be OK. But the way he states it tends to portray a belief in those stories himself rather than an understanding of how others could be concerned by them - which is really his whole point anyway. If parents are concerned about possible side effects, they should have the freedom to vaccinate or not their children.

[old_gregg]

If parents are concerned about possible side effects, they should have the freedom to vaccinate or not their children.

no, they shouldn't

[Jeff Lebowski]

If parents are concerned about possible side effects, they should have the freedom to vaccinate or not their children.

I am fine with that as long as those kids (and parents) are never allowed to go out in public.

[Eddie]

no, they shouldn't

I'm just saying that seems to be the point of his quote to begin with. Which is probably a position consistent with libertarian principles.

[Eddie]

I am fine with that as long as those kids (and parents) are never allowed to go out in public.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I'm not saying that is MY position. Again, I'm saying that appears to be the point of HIS position. At no point have I ever identified MY position.

[old_gregg]

I'm just saying that seems to be the point of his quote to begin with. Which is probably a position consistent with libertarian principles.

if that is in fact his position, it's a perfect indication of why libertarianism is best confined to neckbeard fedora wearers talking about it on the internet. reminds me of when IPU claimed there should be no restriction on individual possession of weapons of any kind.

[USUC]

if that is in fact his position, it's a perfect indication of why libertarianism is best confined to neckbeard fedora wearers talking about it on the internet. reminds me of when IPU claimed there should be no restriction on individual possession of weapons of any kind.

FTR, there is currently a debate going on in the libertarian/classical liberal circles about the vaccination issue. See

http://www.hoover.org/research/measl...ion-gone-viral
http://reason.com/archives/2014/03/2...s-be-mandatory

Libertarianism is an infinitely more reasoned approach to public policy than anything the two parties or fringe groups are proposing.

[Uncle Ted]

Al Sharpton is a fringe idiot. He hasnt been elected governor. He isn't a serious candidate for any office. Rick Perry has been elected governor of one of the largest electoral college states in the country (but not the largest....lol @ texas )

LOL @ Al Sharpton...

Lessons From Rev. Al Sharpton's $4.5 Million Tax Bill

Civil rights leader Reverend Al Sharpton is in the headlines again, but not for Ferguson or civil rights issues this time. A New York Times report says that the now svelte Reverend and his for-profit businesses owe a chubby $4.5 million in state and federal taxes. It isn’t only the taxman that is not being paid, according to reports. Even worthy causes like hotels, landlords, and travel agencies are getting the cold shoulder from Mr. Sharpton or from his advocacy organization, the National Action Network.
[...]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwo...lion-tax-bill/

I guess he was banking on getting elected/appointed to something.

[TripletDaddy]

LOL @ Al Sharpton...

I guess he was banking on getting elected/appointed to something.

But since he isn't a serious candidate for any office, so he is a fringe idiot. Basically exactly what I said.