The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[ERCougar]

Who fully support or who have relented? That system was implemented in the 1960s. That train has come and left the station. Politically, it is suicide to do anything about Medicare.

So...they're only reluctantly supporting it...to save votes...?

I'll let you chew on that for a minute and then get back to me.

[byu71]

Really dumb logic. Not byu71-dumb, but close.

Every vote is equally significant. If we followed your logic, the only time one would vote is when a close vote is anticipated. Anyone who is concerned enough about the constitution, democracy, politics, etc to the point they get that they get fully engaged in the process is probably smart enough to appreciate the significance and symbolism of voting.

Lebowski logic. 1995 Iraq voter turnout 99.47% Great voter participation in democracy.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Do you live in a democratic society? Either way, your vote has little to no value, so what is the point of participating?

You got me there. Every single vote in America when viewed in isolation has little effect on the outcome. Therefore we are all wasting our time and nobody should bother voting.

[Topper]

Really dumb logic. Not byu71-dumb, but close.

Every vote is equally significant. If we followed your logic, the only time one would vote is when a close vote is anticipated. Anyone who is concerned enough about the constitution, democracy, politics, etc to the point they get that they get fully engaged in the process is probably smart enough to appreciate the significance and symbolism of voting in all cases.

Symbolism pssst.

Unless you have sway, you have nothing. Some of us have just a little sway, and some have a lot. That is participation.

Voting does give you the right to complain, but absent a close vote, it is meaningless unless you fully invest and participate at some meaningful level. You are naive to believe voting for the sake of voting matters. It is not a question of intellectual challenge, but rather a question of fully participating to understand that mere voting for symbolic purposes is small potatoes compared to actual making a difference.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Lebowski logic. 1995 Iraq voter turnout 99.47% Great voter participation in democracy.

byu71 logic: Equating 1995 Iraq vote to current US voting system.

[Topper]

Lebowski logic. 1995 Iraq voter turnout 99.47% Great voter participation in democracy.

Chinese vote for one candidate, one party.

But voting for the sake of voting MATTERS!

[byu71]

Do you live in a democratic society? Either way, your vote has little to no value, so what is the point of participating?

I disagree. Your vote can have great value. However, even choosing to vote or not is an act of democracy or freedom, not compulsion.

Again, to call it non participating is the intellectual's way of talking down to someone. I get to call or define something and then talk down to you if you don't conform to my world.

Don't get me wrong. These folks can be extremely nice and often have very good opinions. Just not as often as they think they do.

[imanihonjin]

Really dumb logic. Not byu71-dumb, but close.

Every vote is equally significant. If we followed your logic, the only time one would vote is when a close vote is anticipated. Anyone who is concerned enough about the constitution, democracy, politics, etc to the point they get that they get fully engaged in the process is probably smart enough to appreciate the significance and symbolism of voting.

You completely miss the point. If your vote doesn't do anything to change policy or legislation then you are not really participating in a democratic republic. Doing things like lobbying and giving heavily to candidates actually can sway legislation. Your vote does next to nothing in terms of shaping policy and legislation.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Symbolism pssst.

Unless you have sway, you have nothing. Some of us have just a little sway, and some have a lot. That is participation.

Voting does give you the right to complain, but absent a close vote, it is meaningless unless you fully invest and participate at some meaningful level. You are naive to believe voting for the sake of voting matters. It is not a question of intellectual challenge, but rather a question of fully participating to understand that mere voting for symbolic purposes is small potatoes compared to actual making a difference.

Yes, becoming involved and educated is great. Declining to vote because of mathematical analysis of the impact of one vote = stupid & lazy.

[Topper]

I disagree. Your vote can have great value. However, even choosing to vote or not is an act of democracy or freedom, not compulsion.

Again, to call it non participating is the intellectual's way of talking down to someone. I get to call or define something and then talk down to you if you don't conform to my world.

Don't get me wrong. These folks can be extremely nice and often have very good opinions. Just not as often as they think they do.

Warren Buffett's vote matters more than mine.

The head of UAW's vote matters more than mine. Those two participate.

[old_gregg]

the level of dumb in this thread is really inspiring

[Jeff Lebowski]

You completely miss the point. If your vote doesn't do anything to change policy or legislation then you are not really participating in a democratic republic. Doing things like lobbying and giving heavily to candidates actually can sway legislation. Your vote does next to nothing in terms of shaping policy and legislation.

But the votes in aggregate mean EVERYTHING. Therefore every vote is significant.

[imanihonjin]

You got me there. Every single vote in America when viewed in isolation has little effect on the outcome. Therefore we are all wasting our time and nobody should bother voting.

If everyone stopped voting then I absolutely think you should vote. So in theory people should be encouraging others to vote so that their votes count more. Alternatively you get these stupid "get out the vote campaigns" and people saying I don't care who you vote for, just vote.

Whether you vote or not changes nothing, especially in Utah.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Chinese vote for one candidate, one party.

But voting for the sake of voting MATTERS!

Yes, let's find another system that is completely unlike ours to make a point.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If everyone stopped voting then I absolutely think you should vote. So in theory people should be encouraging others to vote so that their votes count more. Alternatively you get these stupid "get out the vote campaigns" and people saying I don't care who you vote for, just vote.

Whether you vote or not changes nothing, especially in Utah.

Bloody hell. I give up.