Eat up, you godless Sodomites!

[CardiacCoug]

Triplet, care to swoop in and provide a lecture here about free speech, etc.? You know, becasue your training allows you to do so with o-thor-ih-tee?

Did my post say or even remotely imply anything about freedom of speech?

[creekster]

Did my post say or even remotely imply anything about freedom of speech?

You dont think your comment implicates, even remotely, free speech?

I take it back, Triplet, we do need a lecture here.

[CardiacCoug]

You dont think your comment implicates, even remotely, free speech?

I take it back, Triplet, we do need a lecture here.

Nope, but I'm not a lawyer. Please explain.

[creekster]

Nope, but I'm not a lawyer. Please explain.

Never mind. I withdraw the snark.

[Moliere]

I don't think he is making an argument about Free Speech or government action causing a chilling effect. Since I don't like taking threads off topic, I will pass on chiming in.

Chikin!!

[Eddie]

This is all true. I love that they come around and ask me if I need anything like a drink refill or more CFA sauce because I have used up an entire cup on one waffle fry.

Our daughter's school frequently has fundraisers there and we always go in support.

We ended up at a mall food court once and I remember being surprised when one of the CFA employees came and found us amid a bajillion other eaters there to see if they could refill our drink.

I agree with all that has been said about their customer service.

[TripletDaddy]

You dont think your comment implicates, even remotely, free speech?

I take it back, Triplet, we do need a lecture here.

I don't see how his comment implicates free speech at all.

[DU Ute]

I don't see how his comment implicates free speech at all.

I didn't either, I'm glad you feel the same way.

[wuapinmon]

All employees at CFA literally bend over backwards to serve you.

What does MJ says about you dining about the Chicfilators?

[UtahDan]

I have not delved into the Boston situation, but the Chicago one is interesting in its details. Basically Home Depot is going to cut off a piece of property from one of its locations to sell to CFA for a free standing store and the local Alderman needs to approve it. His version of events is this:

“

I’ve been in meetings with them for nine months asking, ‘Are you going to embrace a policy that does not discriminate?’ I never got a straight answer. Now, I have. They put out a Facebook post that said they would not discriminate. Let’s put it into their employee handbook. I want a face-to-face meeting with them to clarify it. I’m open to having them embrace that policy and having the store open.

So at least in his version of things, he had been frustrated with CFA for some period of time over the discrimination issue and the statement from the COO sent him over the edge to saying "no." Now, he backtracked pretty quickly and said of course they can say whatever they want, that is their right. And it is also true the Chicago has a reputation of doing this sort of thing on a variety of issues (including getting business to support the right politicians) but are smart enough to use other pretexts to deny various kinds of applications. But this at least gives some context that this may not have been about just one statement, but about an ongoing concern that CFA would not commit to a policy of non-discrimination. Of course, that might be what he said once there was some push back, but the guy put his position in a letter to the editor so he certainly was not hiding.

The point of all that is I definitely don't support not granting licenses, etc., based on belief. It should be patent to everyone that this is wrong and probably unconstitutional. But I'm not 100% sure that is what really happened there. The reasons stated, if true, sound more legitimate. Given the corporate culture and given that Cathy has said he might fire someone who was doing something sinful, asking whether it is safe to be gay and work there seems very legitimate to me.

Second, I don't think the protests are stupid or pointless at all. I think they have called attention to a very important issue. I believe that the argument has been won on this issue and the the opposition, for that reason, has been reduced to making procedural arguments such as that they have the right to say, believe what they want. Those arguments are correct and to the extent that their rights are stepped on it ought to be addressed. But my point is, I believe my side has the more persuasive argument and that the more attention gets called to this issue, the more people will be exposed to that argument. The more people are exposed to the argument the more they will support equality or at least be ashamed to oppose it in polite company. The more support for equality, the sooner the current era of discrimination will end.

[LA Ute]

Fair enough.

Sure, I agree that the grandstanding against CFA by the mayors of Boston, Chicago, and SF is ridiculous. I won't change my habit of taking the family to CFA occasionally.

But I think lining up by the dozens on "support CFA day" is at best insensitive and at worst hateful to a vulnerable group of people.

"Look at the news, gay teenagers: thousands of people all across the country are lining up at Chick-Fil-A to say you should never be allowed to have a spouse like the rest of us normal people."

If you are saying that I should refrain from supporting CFA (which i did for the reasons I note in my post) because it might be seen by some as insensitive - whether that reaction is irrational or not - then you're pretty much asking me to be silent on the entire issue.

BTW, based on my own experience I completely reject the notion that hate, hatefulness, or hatred were involved in any significant way in the overall effort to support CFA this week. IMO, those words have joined "fascist," "Nazi," and "communist" as almost meaningless in political discourse because of overuse.

[CardiacCoug]

BTW, based on my own experience I completely reject the notion that hate, hatefulness, or hatred were involved in any significant way in the overall effort to support CFA this week.

Hey, call me crazy but I trust the gay people who say it feels like hate to them. I don't trust the straight people with awesome spouses and a bunch of awesome kids who say their spouse and family are the most important thing in their life, but why on earth are gay people so worked up over this? -- we just support the "traditional (Biblical) definition" of marriage: One that EXCLUDES YOU!

[creekster]

If you are saying that I should refrain from supporting CFA (which i did for the reasons I note in my post) because it might be seen by some as insensitive - whether that reaction is irrational or not - then you're pretty much asking me to be silent on the entire issue.

BTW, based on my own experience I completely reject the notion that hate, hatefulness, or hatred were involved in any significant way in the overall effort to support CFA this week. IMO, those words have joined "fascist," "Nazi," and "communist" as almost meaningless in political discourse because of overuse.

Nope, no issues of speech here.

[TripletDaddy]

Nope, no issues of speech here.

Agreed. There are no First Amendment issues here.

LA Ute was free to exercise his right and he did so. What is the issue?

[Moliere]

If you are saying that I should refrain from supporting CFA (which i did for the reasons I note in my post) because it might be seen by some as insensitive - whether that reaction is irrational or not - then you're pretty much asking me to be silent on the entire issue.

BTW, based on my own experience I completely reject the notion that hate, hatefulness, or hatred were involved in any significant way in the overall effort to support CFA this week. IMO, those words have joined "fascist," "Nazi," and "communist" as almost meaningless in political discourse because of overuse.

Not directly related but somewhat relevant:

The other manager in my group was having a discussion with our supervisor on the CFA mess. I heard the whole thing as it happened right outside my office door (see the bad office etiquette thread). She of course went to CFA and her husband posted pics of it on FB along with many of her friends. She has a gay family member who apparently was offended at the way this whole thing was carried out. I think the tone of many in the CFA supporting group was hurtful to gays.

Maybe the tone I observed was set by the vocal majority, but my FB newsfeed (complete with pictures) was full of some pretty direct and downright Unchristian remarks in regards to liberals, the media, and people in favor of gay marriage. This is why I posted early in this thread that there were two groups at CFA on Wednesday and I'm afraid the vocal majority was the gay-hating traditional marriage supporters and not those upset at the mayors asinine comments.