Trayvon Martin

[imanihonjin]

Here's the problem. Your scenario is not consistent with the evidence.

1. Zimmerman outweighed the 156-lb. Martin by 100 or more pounds.
2. Zimmerman had been taking grappling/boxing training.
3. The injury on the back of Zimmerman's head was caused by something hard with a sharp edge (i.e., probably a sprinkler box), not having his head smacked on the pavement.
4. The alleged (no clear evidence that it had actually been broken) broken nose is unlikely to have been caused by Martin's fist (as alleged), as Martin's hands were injury and blood-free.

With Zimmerman's statements to the police about what happened being inconsistent with physical evidence, there is good reason to doubt anything he has said, or any claims by his defense team, as his credibility is damaged. Since there is no other evidence that Trayvon told him (allegedly) that he was going to die, and since Zimmerman apparently has not been entirely truthful in his statements to the police, there is very good cause to believe he did not reasonably believe his life was in danger.

Again, he was allegedly attacked by a kid who wasn't much more than half his weight. And he had a gun. Seriously? Zimmerman was afraid for his life?

Plus the fact he was following this "punk" after being told not to by the police.

Maybe not second degree murder, but manslaughter and other lesser included offenses are definitely in play.

By the way, here's a concrete example of the media reports of the testimony being a bit inaccurate:

The defense's gunshot expert was asked by the defense attorney if the physical evidence "was consistent with" the defense's description of what was happening when the gun went off (Trayvon on top of Zimmerman). He said yes. A little later, he admitted that it was also "consistent with" the prosecution's argument - that Trayvon was pulling away when he was shot. However, the only media reports I saw of this testimony said that the expert said the evidence "confirmed" the defense's story. This is also the same guy, I believe, who said the injury on the back of Zimmerman's head was caused by something hard with a sharp edge.

Your presentation of the evidence is not accurate at all.

1. Zimmerman did not weigh more than 100 lbs than martin. He was described by friends as weighing 170. Look at his arraignment photo....no way that dude weighs 260+ pounds....keep in mind his is 5'9".
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1331610

2. So? How long had he taken the classes? Was he any good? Apprently not....according to the guy who owned the gym where he took these classes " Zimmerman had no fighting skills.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/zimmerman-trial-updates/?hpt=hp_t3

3. One person may have said that the injury on the back of his head was caused by something hard with a sharp edge but another expert testified that the head injuries were consistent with having his head hit on concrete more than once.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592866-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman-when-teen-was-shot-gunshot-wound-expert-testifies/

4. The medical report from the examiner showed a broken nose.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.Ud3fYfmRB8E

Zimmerman's inaccuracies have been very minor, like where he placed TM's hands after he shot TM.

There is also ZERO evidence to suggest that GZ followed TM after he was told that he didn't have to follow TM....in fact when the dispatcher says that GZ says Okay and that he had lost TM anyway. I get that you may not buy his story, but as long as we are talking evidence and all....there isn't any evidence to support the prosecutions claim that GZ followed TM after being told not to....even if he did, so what...it isn't a crime and if TM started the altercation and GZ found himself having his head bashed into the pavement after having his nose broken by the man who sat on top of him it is reasonable that he feared for his life or grave bodily injury.

[smokymountainrain]

The video of Zimmerman's interview with Hannity was shown to the jury. In that interview, Zimmerman stated that he felt his life was in danger.

If I had shot a guy in an altercation, I'd say the same thing. After all, I wouldn't want to go to jail.

[smokymountainrain]

Once again, you're stating what you believe, not what facts have come out during the trial.

Right.

I'm arguing right and wrong rather than guilty or not guilty.

[imanihonjin]

By the way, I was the same size as Trayvon (5' 11", 155 lb.) when I graduated high school. I can't imagine attacking a guy 100 pounds heavier than me, and making him fear for his life. Are people completely discounting the size difference between the two?

It isn't hard when you continue to exaggerate the difference.

[SoCalCoug]

According to a witness, Martin was on top of Zimmerman, pummeling him. It wasn't just one punch and down went Zimmerman.

Not sure which witness, and not sure exactly what was said.

Also, witness testimony is often unreliable. A lot depends on the credibility of the witness.

Also working against this is that this alleged testimony is contradicted by the physical evidence. There is no physical evidence of Trayvon having hit Zimmerman with his fists - his hands were blood and injury-free (save two small scratches - one too small to even be measured - that likely pre-existed the injury and weren't significant enough to draw blood). Had he been pummelling Zimmerman, there surely would have at least been blood on his hands.

[il Padrino Ute]

First the disclaimer - I wouldn't have been following the kid in the first place - that's just stupid.

So if I was following around a kid who jumped me, and I outweighed him by 100 lbs., and I had a gun, I wouldn't have been afraid for my life.

Again, the physical evidence isn't consistent with Trayvon punching him, nor is it consistent with Trayvon smacking his head on the concrete.

I can envision a situation where he surprised me and knocked me over and I hit my head on a sprinkler case and was dazed, but that's not the story told by Zimmerman. Zimmerman's story is contradicted by the physical evidence.

What about the witness who testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and pummeling him? The one who testified for the state?

Edit: I was wrong about the witness saying Martin was pummeling Zimmerman. The witness did say that Martin was on top and that he saw "arm movements going downward" though he wasn't sure if the person on top was striking the person below.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591520-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-neighbor-testifies-trayvon-martin-was-straddling-zimmerman-moments-before-fatal-gunshot/

[imanihonjin]

IPU just as we can't prove my above scenario about Zimmerman choosing to do what he did because he had a gun, how in the hell can it be proved what Zimmerman felt? If this case hinges on what Zimmerman says he felt, it's all bullshit anyway.

The question is whether it was reasonable for him to feel that way.....that doesn't mean that you would have felt the same way....but whether it was reasonable for a person to feel that way.

[BigFatMeanie]

That's fair. Since it can't be proven, there is no reason for the courts to consider it.

But since I'd bet the farm Zimmerman did take that into consideration, in my own mind, it will be a shame if Zimmerman doesn't spend some time behind bars.

I'd bet the farm GZ is glad you're not on his jury. Impartial you ain't.

[SoCalCoug]

It isn't hard when you continue to exaggerate the difference.

How have exaggerrated the difference? Trayvon was 156 lbs. Zimmerman was 250-260 lbs. That's approximately 100 lbs. difference. Had Trayvon been 25 lbs. lighter, Zimmerman would have been double his weight.

100 lbs. It's a standard weight. My math is good. Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by 100 lbs.

[SoCalCoug]

What about the witness who testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and pummeling him? The one who testified for the state?

Again, I don't know exactly what was said. Also, it was night, rainy, and dark. Witness testimony is well-known in the legal community to be unreliable, particularly when contradicted by the physical evidence. Here, it's more reasonable to rely on the physical evidence rather than the witness testimony.

[smokymountainrain]

I'd bet the farm GZ is glad you're not on his jury. Impartial you ain't.

I'm not on his jury, so I have the luxury of judging him with my opinion a message board. If I were on his jury, perhaps I would judge him differently.

[imanihonjin]

From what I saw, no. They tried to get some of the witnesses to say he was "under the influence" but they wouldn't. At best, he had had some marijuana sometime in the prior 30 days. I believe the medical examiner said there was not enough in his system to state he may have been "under the influence."

See there you go misrepresenting again. According to the expert testimony the pot use "could" have had an effect on TM state of mind.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,7670829.story

[myboynoah]

I'd bet the farm GZ is glad you're not on his jury. Impartial you ain't.

Here's a joke:

Knock Knock

Who's there?

George Zimmerman.

George Zimmerman who?

Welcome to the jury.

[imanihonjin]

How have exaggerrated the difference? Trayvon was 156 lbs. Zimmerman was 250-260 lbs. That's approximately 100 lbs. difference. Had Trayvon been 25 lbs. lighter, Zimmerman would have been double his weight.

100 lbs. It's a standard weight. My math is good. Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by 100 lbs.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1331610....He wasn't 260+ pounds.

[il Padrino Ute]

How have exaggerrated the difference? Trayvon was 156 lbs. Zimmerman was 250-260 lbs. That's approximately 100 lbs. difference. Had Trayvon been 25 lbs. lighter, Zimmerman would have been double his weight.

100 lbs. It's a standard weight. My math is good. Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by 100 lbs.

The toughest person I've ever known in my life was a guy I played ball with who was about 5'7" and weighed 140 lbs. soaking wet. I've seen guys well over 250 lbs. do what they could to get away from him when he was ticked.

Bigger doesn't mean anything in a fight.