Obamacare cost...

[Maximus]

I'm sure you are all again absorbing new data that shows premiums are going to be lower than even the CBO forecasts which conservatives said were unrealistic. I'm sure you all are also reading about the continuing trends with health care costs.

If not, start here:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...r-is-over.html

It's like the guy knows AA personally and wrote a letter just to him.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...-62-for-women/

[calicoug]

The voters did want house republicans to "control", at least partially, legislation. Therefore, the House is doing what it can with the leverage that it has. As posted in another thread on the fiscal cliff, Obama thinks that raising the debt limit is irresponsible and unpatriotic. The House is doing its very best, in light of the president's comments, to be responsible and patriotic, with what little leverage they have. I applaud them.

As for the dems not doing the same thing, sure they are. They are saying we didn't budget correctly and now you must either cave into our demands to increase out budget without any other concessions to stem off the practices that got us here or we are going to shut the government down. We made a mistake and we DEMAND that you solve our mistake or else.

One necessary step in the process? How about dealing with the debt limit when you pass reckless legislation that cannot meet the requirements of fitting into what was a prescribed debt limit?

First, whatever Obama said in the past is merely evidence that he, too, is a politician. There was never any risk of breaching the debt limit when Obama made his comments. He said what countless other politicians have said in similar circumstances with a president from the other party in power. And if you go back to when he made those statements, you will find Republican leaders saying it is irresponsible not to raise the debt limit. Politicians play politics. Big surprise.

The key difference now is that there actually is a realistic chance the debt ceiling is breached. Making threats about breaching the debt ceiling when there is no chance of breaching it is completely different. This is where the rubber meets the road and Republicans (again) are showing tremendous recklessness.

Second, if you think the spending is the result of what Democrats have done, you are kidding yourself. Can you isolate out the costs of Medicare Part D? Or of the Iraq war? Can you isolate out the costs of the Bush tax cuts? Are you in favor of that spending but just not other spending and you think it's only the other spending that is putting us over the limit? You're smarter than that. To say that Democrats are forcing Republicans to accept Democratic past spending is just false. Both parties have responsibility for past spending. Only one party has responsibility for attempting to push us over the debt ceiling.

[calicoug]

This is the source for that article:

94% of Uninsured Americans Will Have Obamacare Premiums Below What the CBO Projected.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/09/25/obamacare_premiums_will_be_cheaper_than_the_cbo_pr ojected.html

But the article's conclusion is that Obamacare will be cheaper than expected for 94% of all americans. So how can Slate extrapolate these figures from UNINSURED americans to all americans? Because, they reason, all americans with insurance will have to pay for the uninsureds that are entering the insurance marketplace. So its cheaper for them too.

Another trick: HHS examined the premium costs on a weighted average basis, grouping everyone into a group of 65 years or less. The problem is that premiums will rise most precipitously for young americans, and less for those in retirement, like people in their 50s and 60s. So combining costs for all americans into one big group mutes the sticker shock for younger americans.

There might be other questionable assumptions in the HHS report- I noticed these on a brief summary reading. (I think that this is the 15 page report released by Health and Human Svcs that everyone was pooh-poohing upon its release yesterday.)

The exchanges in Obamacare only apply to those who are in the individual plan market. The rates being discussed are for those people. These aren't rates for group plans. The Republicans have been saying that the rates would come in much higher than what the CBO projected. Well- that's clearly not true. The rates came in lower.

I'm sure you are adjusting your perceptions accordingly rather than dogmatically holding onto incorrect beliefs.

[Pelado]

First, whatever Obama said in the past is merely evidence that he, too, is a politician. There was never any risk of breaching the debt limit when Obama made his comments. He said what countless other politicians have said in similar circumstances with a president from the other party in power. And if you go back to when he made those statements, you will find Republican leaders saying it is irresponsible not to raise the debt limit. Politicians play politics. Big surprise.

The key difference now is that there actually is a realistic chance the debt ceiling is breached. Making threats about breaching the debt ceiling when there is no chance of breaching it is completely different. This is where the rubber meets the road and Republicans (again) are showing tremendous recklessness.

Second, if you think the spending is the result of what Democrats have done, you are kidding yourself. Can you isolate out the costs of Medicare Part D? Or of the Iraq war? Can you isolate out the costs of the Bush tax cuts? Are you in favor of that spending but just not other spending and you think it's only the other spending that is putting us over the limit? You're smarter than that. To say that Democrats are forcing Republicans to accept Democratic past spending is just false. Both parties have responsibility for past spending. Only one party has responsibility for attempting to push us over the debt ceiling.

Finally we agree - it's the party that continues historically significant deficit spending in spite of an approaching debt limit.

[All-American]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...-62-for-women/

Funny-- I read that same article this week and thought about Cali. Thanks for posting.

[calicoug]

Funny-- I read that same article this week and thought about Cali. Thanks for posting.

So compared to the five cheapest plans on the market today which really aren't available for sale except to the most healthy purchasers and which will offer only the barest coverage the bronze plan is more expensive and you think that's an apples to apples comparison? In other words, you think what is effectively a group plan incorporating everyone overall should be cheaper than the very cheapest plan to the most healthy people? Yeah. I'm sure that's the relevant baseline. You guys will grasp at anything to view the law in the worst possible light. Keep on unskewing, AA.

[Mormon Red Death]

It will be amusing to watch as all the healthy 27-45 year old people just choose not to buy health insurance because paying the tax penalty is cheaper. Half of the uninsured in this country choose not to buy it because they don't see the point. They're healthy and relatively young. When the tax penalty is cheaper than the premiums, don't be surprised when they still refuse to buy it.

Then watch the healthcare exchange prices mushroom.

Then watch the non healthy 27-45 year olds buy subsidised insurance and utilize way more Healthcare and watch the premiums prices mushroom

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[imanihonjin]

First, whatever Obama said in the past is merely evidence that he, too, is a politician. There was never any risk of breaching the debt limit when Obama made his comments. He said what countless other politicians have said in similar circumstances with a president from the other party in power. And if you go back to when he made those statements, you will find Republican leaders saying it is irresponsible not to raise the debt limit. Politicians play politics. Big surprise.

The key difference now is that there actually is a realistic chance the debt ceiling is breached. Making threats about breaching the debt ceiling when there is no chance of breaching it is completely different. This is where the rubber meets the road and Republicans (again) are showing tremendous recklessness.

Second, if you think the spending is the result of what Democrats have done, you are kidding yourself. Can you isolate out the costs of Medicare Part D? Or of the Iraq war? Can you isolate out the costs of the Bush tax cuts? Are you in favor of that spending but just not other spending and you think it's only the other spending that is putting us over the limit? You're smarter than that. To say that Democrats are forcing Republicans to accept Democratic past spending is just false. Both parties have responsibility for past spending. Only one party has responsibility for attempting to push us over the debt ceiling.

You are right only one party has responsibility for currently attempting to "push us over the debt ceiling". That would be the democrats. Repubs, at least some of them, are using the debt ceiling as an opportunity to reign in government to make sure we don't continue, at least at the same break neck speeds, down the path we are currently headed. You are right repubs love to spend money just like dems, however, folks like Cruz, Lee, and Paul offer a different path of smaller government. That is why other pseudo repubs like McCain, Graham, and folks like VC hate them so much.

Saying that, yeah you republicans are responsible for causing all the debt how dare you try and now be fiscally responsible....isn't really adding much more than what my 3 year old could add to this conversation.

I also like how you discount Obama's comments as merely rhetorical and just him being a politician yet when others say similar things and actually act rather than just speak they are terrorists. Seriously bro?

[Uncle Ted]

Then watch the non healthy 27-45 year olds buy subsidised insurance and utilize way more Healthcare and watch the premiums prices mushroom

This is why we need to move to full socialized medicine now. This and because those doctors will all their education are greedy b*turds. If we just make doctors indentured servants of the government (for subsidizing a good part of all that education) then everyone will have all the free health care they want and all our problems will be solved. Everyone knows that free health care is a basic, god given right that everyone is entitled to.

[Pelado]

First, whatever Obama said in the past, whatever he says now, and anything he may say in the future is merely evidence that he, too, is a politician.

FIFY

[All-American]

So compared to the five cheapest plans on the market today which really aren't available for sale except to the most healthy purchasers and which will offer only the barest coverage the bronze plan is more expensive and you think that's an apples to apples comparison? In other words, you think what is effectively a group plan incorporating everyone overall should be cheaper than the very cheapest plan to the most healthy people? Yeah. I'm sure that's the relevant baseline. You guys will grasp at anything to view the law in the worst possible light. Keep on unskewing, AA.

Well, seeing as how Obamacare is supposed to get young, healthy Americans to buy insurance, yeah, the prices of plans available to them are pretty relevant.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

It appears as if there's a coordinated effort on the Democrats' part to call Republicans "terrorists." More evidence of Obama's centrism and compromising ways. Calling the other side terrorists, commies, fascists and Nazis always yields positive results.

[Moliere]

It appears as if there's a coordinated effort on the Democrats' part to call Republicans "terrorists." More evidence of Obama's centrism and compromising ways. Calling the other side terrorists, commies, fascists and Nazis always yields positive results.

Is "terrorist" the new "nazi"? If so, the GOP just won.

[Omaha 680]

Is "terrorist" the new "nazi"? If so, the GOP just won.

I hope so. Then we can go back to calling people nazis without losing an argument.

[byu71]

It appears as if there's a coordinated effort on the Democrats' part to call Republicans "terrorists." More evidence of Obama's centrism and compromising ways. Calling the other side terrorists, commies, fascists and Nazis always yields positive results.

I despise the main stream media. They should be all over this and shaming the dem's for doing so. I guarantee you when the republicans make such assinine statements the media is all over it. Remember how outraged the media was when some congressman yelled at the President, "you lied".