Feminism is alive in the next generation: Video Against Slut Shaming

[SeattleUte]

I didn't mean to imply that you've actually provided explicit materials to children, but I believe you've said previously that you'd leave the determination of what a child could/should watch to the child--that you would allow the child to determine what he/she could handle, which I find absurd on its face. And if you're on board with providing sex ed only in an age appropriate manner, then I assume you believe that inappropriate sex ed would, in affect, adversely affect childhood innocence.

I suspect we're not as far apart as our initial posts might suggest, as I'm confident you're a fine father to young Robin. I just think it's more important for men of any generation to care more about being fathers to their children than mere schoolyard buddies.

Exactly. The point here is not prudishness about premarital sex. I'm the last person to preach that, even to my children. The point is this person is essentially still a child. fortunately, as a society we still have laws and values that protect children from exposure to sex. I've not read anyone seriously argue that movie ratings are old fashioned.

[wuapinmon]

Did she really just say "Hasta la vista?"

[RobinFinderson]

This isn't what that video was about. She was talking like a sexually liberated college female, and I would have no probelm with that, from a college-aged female. The inference was that she's vulnerable to the slut label but look how bright and articulate and rational she is. The problem is, this girl is barely 13.

Ummmm... SU, she IS vulnerable to the 'slut label.' Do you have any idea what 13yo middle school girls talk about? They talk about sex and 'slut shaming,' among other things.

The reason the video attracts attention is this 13 year old is talking that way, even coquettishly, granted in a very articulate way, just as a smart college student would talk.

The reason this video attracts attention is because it is one of the most articulate presentations about the subject that anyone has ever created. You won't find a more densely packed, articulate, and truthful presentation on the subject anywhere. The fact that it comes from a 13yo certainly enhances the message in the same way that people's ears perk up when they listen to the work of a child piano virtuoso. "Coquettishly?" Seriously, SU?

I bet a vast majority of grown up Americans of whatever age would not approve of a 13 year old talking like someone who's experienced a great deal sexually.

I hope she doesn't know what she's talking about. Who is she having sex with? Other 13 year olds? Adults? Think about that.

First "coquettishly" and now this. SU, if I wasn't a student of your posts, and had not long ago come to the conclusion that you would be the LEAST sexually threatening person to anyone, of all of the posters on CUF, your projecting so much unspoken and not-inferred sexuality onto a minor would cause me some serious concern. After reading your post I had to watch the video again, to see if I had missed all of this sexuality you are talking about. It isn't there, at all. In no way does she ever say anything that suggests that she is talking about her own sexual experience.

I don't necessarily think her parents should go to jail. She seems really bright and mature and odds favor her becoming successful by contemporary measures. It's not ncessarily all that big of a deal. I just think the video is not cute or entertaining (apparently that's its point; look how cute and precosious she is). I tihnk it's revolting, and I know virtually all well adjusted Americans would agree with me.

Seriously, SU, you saw a LOT of stuff in that video that simply isn't there.

[RobinFinderson]

And if you're on board with providing sex ed only in an age appropriate manner, then I assume you believe that inappropriate sex ed would, in affect, adversely affect childhood innocence.

The reason I'm on board with providing sex ed in an age-appropriate manner isn't because I believe that such knowledge would adversely affect childhood innocence. I see it in far more practical terms. A prepubescent child generally isn't interested in sex, so a lot of information isn't going to be useful to that child. To me, 'age appropriate' means the information that will be relevant to the child at a particular age.

[PaloAltoCougar]

The reason I'm on board with providing sex ed in an age-appropriate manner isn't because I believe that such knowledge would adversely affect childhood innocence. I see it in far more practical terms. A prepubescent child generally isn't interested in sex, so a lot of information isn't going to be useful to that child. To me, 'age appropriate' means the information that will be relevant to the child at a particular age.

Then we'll have to disagree, as I think there are better reasons not to provide sexually explicit material or performances to kindergartners than the potential boredom of the audience.

[RobinFinderson]

Then we'll have to disagree, as I think there are better reasons not to provide sexually explicit material or performances to kindergartners than the potential boredom of the audience.

Well I'm glad that we can both agree that we shouldn't be providing pornography to children, even if we get there by different routes. But I'm still interested in this idea of the harm that comes to a child from witnessing sex. Lets completely remove the moral issue of an adult providing pornography to a child, which I think we both agree is an extremely creepy thing for an adult to do. For the sake of argument, lets just assume that some sicko at the television station spliced five minutes of pornography into an episode of Barney and Friends. And also assume that the porn in question was free of all of the genuinely harmful displays of misogyny and racism. How will those kids' lives change as a result of seeing that?

[Green Monstah]

Well I'm glad that we can both agree that we shouldn't be providing pornography to children, even if we get there by different routes. But I'm still interested in this idea of the harm that comes to a child from witnessing sex. Lets completely remove the moral issue of an adult providing pornography to a child, which I think we both agree is an extremely creepy thing for an adult to do. For the sake of argument, lets just assume that some sicko at the television station spliced five minutes of pornography into an episode of Barney and Friends. And also assume that the porn in question was free of all of the genuinely harmful displays of misogyny and racism. How will those kids' lives change as a result of seeing that?

Is there really racist porn?

[taekwondave]

She reminds me of many of the participants on my 7th grade debate team. We were tackling issues which were way above our heads as 7th graders, but with a little coaching from our teacher, we knew all of the grown-up buzz phrases. We had memorized quotes from supreme court cases and past and current presidents, etc. In a vacuum we were very articulate and sounded really intelligent with respect to our assigned subjects. However, as soon as someone asked us a question we weren't expecting, we sounded like 7th graders.

In my opinion, this girl is much like we were. She has had a chance to write out and memorize an "essay" of sorts, and can deliver it articulately and with emphasis on all the right words and syllables. However, I suspect that if she were posed some of the questions being asked here, or any manner of follow-ups, she would very quickly sound like an average 7th grader talking about sex.

This is how I feel on CUF all the time!

[taekwondave]

Well I'm glad that we can both agree that we shouldn't be providing pornography to children, even if we get there by different routes. But I'm still interested in this idea of the harm that comes to a child from witnessing sex. Lets completely remove the moral issue of an adult providing pornography to a child, which I think we both agree is an extremely creepy thing for an adult to do. For the sake of argument, lets just assume that some sicko at the television station spliced five minutes of pornography into an episode of Barney and Friends. And also assume that the porn in question was free of all of the genuinely harmful displays of misogyny and racism. How will those kids' lives change as a result of seeing that?

Kids aren't born with that innate sense of embarrassment regarding topics like this. You can be totally up front with them and they'll just absorb the information like they absorb everything else. I learned about sex before I started kindergarten. I didn't think anything of it. My mom simply explained how it was that my sisters and I came to exist in this world, and we were fine with that. It wasn't until maybe fourth or fifth grade that sex became a taboo with my peers. Is this girl being brainwashed? No more than she would be if she simply adopted the simplistic social view of sex she would normally receive at a public school or at her church. Is she a little young to have sex? With an adult, yes. With another 13-15 year old? I don't know. I wasn't having sex at that age but I also thought I'd go to hell if I did, so... how can I draw on my own experience to make a judgment?

[wuapinmon]

I wasn't having sex at that age but I also thought I'd go to hell if I did, so... how can I draw on my own experience to make a judgment?

I like what SU has said in this thread that can serve as an answer to your question.

[Babs]

Hardly surprising that Robin and company subscribe to such a distinctly Nixon-era conception of feminism.

[wuapinmon]

Hardly surprising that Robin and company subscribe to such a distinctly Nixon-era conception of feminism.

Oh! I've missed you.

http://cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=53867&highlight=babs

http://cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?p=728102&highlight=babs#post728102

http://cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?p=716101&highlight=babs#post716101

[RobinFinderson]

Hardly surprising that Robin and company subscribe to such a distinctly Nixon-era conception of feminism.

Feminists today think that 'slut shaming' is ok? I don't think so.

[RobinFinderson]

I like what SU has said in this thread that can serve as an answer to your question.

Do you mean where SU was seeing nonexistent flirting and nonexistent descriptions of personal sexual experiences coming from a 13-yo?

[wuapinmon]

Do you mean where SU was seeing nonexistent flirting and nonexistent descriptions of personal sexual experiences coming from a 13-yo?

No, more about how we have laws to protect kids from themselves and zooming adults.