Romney

[UtahDan]

Did you previously believe that your garments would afford you some kind of magical protection?

Any by the way, at a point I definitely did. And before you scoff, Bill Marriott, Jr. was with me on this!

[Jeff Lebowski]

My point wasn't about physical protection. If they really are no more than a reminder, then how would you distinguish them from a CTR ring? I think (could be wrong) that most members would say that temple garments are offering divine protection beyond someone wear a crucifix, for example (which is also a reminder).

Fair enough.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Any by the way, at a point I definitely did. And before you scoff, Bill Marriott, Jr. was with me on this!

Yes he was. And millions of other Mormons and I groaned when he said that on 60 minutes.

[LA Ute]

Yes he was. And millions of other Mormons and I groaned when he said that on 60 minutes.

I was one of them. Even if it happened, IMO, that's a sacred personal experience. But maybe he felt prompted to share it with the entire country....

I agree with DDD on this, BTW. And I'm glad no one contradicted my teaching about the importance of not expecting physical protection from garments while wearing pleated pants.

[LA Ute]

Dan Riehl is picking up steam on the Romney-Alinsky ties.

I think this is idiotic, and takes guilt by association to a wacky new extreme.

[Green Monstah]

Yes he was. And millions of other Mormons and I groaned when he said that on 60 minutes.

To be fair, IIRC, Marriot included the caveat "I believe" that his Gs protected him from being burned.

[Moliere]

I think this is idiotic, and takes guilt by association to a wacky new extreme.

Yep

[Pelado]

I find it interesting that someone would be screwing around yet would still be wearing their g's because of it being ingrained into their head.

Two things:

1. You wear the undies you've got
2. You don't want to tip off your faithful spouse that you're doing the dirty with Sister Summers

[Eddie]

I think there is a big difference between garments and CTR rings/crucifixes in that what they represent is different. Garments represent a covenant. The others represent a belief - but wearing them isn't based on having made a commitment to do so.

UtahDan - I think where you are running into grief is in how you present it.

I would say that most people believe that the covenant and associated wearing of garments does offer them a protection. Some might ascribe it to the reminder. Some might ascribe it to other things.

But when you say - without exception - that LDS folks believe there is some mystical property within their garments that protects them from all temptation of sin and from all potential physical harm - that just doesn't sit right.

We already believe that God won't allow us to be tempted beyond what we can resist. So what additional protection is the Garment? We also believe that part of the reason we are here is to overcome temptation - so why would we believe that garments trump all temptation and make them simply disappear?

As for the physical harm protection - well - I'm not sure that's even worth discussing. I simply agree with the original quote of there having been individual incidents in which people believe they were physically protected by their garments. Who am I to say otherwise?

I've never heard the Willard Richard's story. I thought the watch stopped the bullets - not his G's.

[Moliere]

:igiveup:

Take the garment talk to another thread.

[Flystripper]

:igiveup:

Take the garment talk to another thread.

Sorry. I am done with that convo...

[Jeff Lebowski]

I've never heard the Willard Richard's story. I thought the watch stopped the bullets - not his G's.

<WITH APOLOGIES TO MOLIERE>

That was John Taylor's watch.

Willard Richards escaped with no gunshot wounds. He also was the only one wearing his garments. Others (including JS) had taken off their garments due to the summer heat. Some have claimed that this was the origin to the belief/folklore that garments offer protection from physical harm. As if God allowed JS to be shot because he removed his garments.

It would be interesting to know if the "shield and protection" clause was part of the original ceremony or if it was added at a later point in time.

[myboynoah]

<WITH APOLOGIES TO MOLIERE>

That was John Taylor's watch.

Willard Richards escaped with no gunshot wounds. He also was the only one wearing his garments. Others (including JS) had taken off their garments due to the summer heat. Some have claimed that this was the origin to the belief/folklore that garments offer protection from physical harm. As if God allowed JS to be shot because he removed his garments.

It would be interesting to know if the "shield and protection" clause was part of the original ceremony or if it was added at a later point in time.

Then they should start giving out pocket watches at the temple as well.

[TripletDaddy]

Then they should start giving out pocket watches at the temple as well.

Alternatively, the temple could offer an assumption of risk clause, affording members the option of eschewing garments during the summer heat, but doing so at their own peril.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Then they should start giving out pocket watches at the temple as well.

Turns out that the pocket watch story is folklore also.

Leanord, Glen. A Place of Peace, a People of Promise. Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book. "Taylor, close behind the Prophet, had been using Markham's ‘rascal-beater’ to knock against the muskets and bayonets thrusting into the room. Richards waited behind Taylor, beyond striking distance. Without any way to shoot back, and certain death threatening from the landing, Taylor suddenly dashed toward the east window, intending to jump. A ball from the landing behind him struck Taylor in the left thigh, grazed the bone, and pushed within half an inch of the other side. He collapsed on the wide sill, denting the back of his vest pocket watch. The force shattered the glass cover of the timepiece against his ribs and pushed the internal gear pins against the enamel face, popping out a small segment later mistakenly identified as a bullet hole."