What Are You Willing to Give Up?

[Mormon Red Death]

absolutely nothing. I wont give up anything unless everyone has to give up something.

[Clark Addison]

Good thread.
I think that most thinking people in my generation have accepted the notion that SS is unsustainable, and if they havent, they should. We need to just codify it now, so everyone can plan for it.

I think your statement is correct if you amended "my generation" to "my generation and approximate economic class". Unfortunately, I think that there are still plenty of people in our generation who will be counting on social security.

[BlueHair]

I'll give up my income tax and property tax.

[cowboy]

This is an interesting thread in light of recent events with the US Treasury downgrade. It seems to me that this is everyone's problem, and nobody wants to own it. Liberals think the 'rich' (whatever the hell that means) should pay more than the 80 to 90 percent they already pay, conservatives think that they shouldn't have to pay for the benefits they are receiving or the liabilities that they have assumed as members of the republic, and everyone else thinks that it's somebody else's responsibility to get the economy rolling so they can have a job. That's why nothing gets done, and that's why US Treasuries are now no longer the safest investment in the world.

The fact is, that the rich have already created jobs on their way to becoming rich. Taking their money away now will only discourage others from trying to get rich and creating jobs in the process. On the other side of the coin, most all of us receive, directly or indirectly, more government benefit than we pay for in taxes. For example, Wyoming spends $13,000 per student on K-12 education. I doubt that the typical family with two kids is paying $26,000 in taxes after FICA for this benefit. Nobody, liberal or conservative is willing to acknowledge that they are part of the problem, so nobody is willing to be part of the solution.

Meanwhile, the best and least painful solution is something that everybody expects the other guy to do as well. The only way we really get out of this mess is to grow the economy. Sure, we need to cut spending and we probably need to increase taxes (though my opinion is it needs to be a payroll tax increase,) but the only way we really solve this mess is to become more productive, produce more stuff, and grow our GDP. Yet again, the same responses arise. Everyone looks to the successful entreprenuers, corporations, and yes, even governments that are being vilified right now to turn the economy around, when it is really the little guy who will do it. It's the guy with an idea and a willingness to bear risk who is the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Mark Zuckerberg, and that guy will never create tomorrow's economy if he thinks it's someone else's job today.

We Americans should be ashamed of ourselves.

[Uncle Ted]

This is an interesting thread in light of recent events with the US Treasury downgrade. It seems to me that this is everyone's problem, and nobody wants to own it. Liberals think the 'rich' (whatever the hell that means) should pay more than the 80 to 90 percent they already pay, conservatives think that they shouldn't have to pay for the benefits they are receiving or the liabilities that they have assumed as members of the republic, and everyone else thinks that it's somebody else's responsibility to get the economy rolling so they can have a job. That's why nothing gets done, and that's why US Treasuries are now no longer the safest investment in the world.

The fact is, that the rich have already created jobs on their way to becoming rich. Taking their money away now will only discourage others from trying to get rich and creating jobs in the process.

Maybe the income tax system should be replaced with a national sales tax or a consumption tax. I once read that income taxes costs something over $600 billion per year for "tax compliance". It was estimated that it would only cost something like $5 billion for a national sales tax (e.g. no tax forms for citizens to fill out and costly accounting fees). Of course, for subsistence items (like unprepared food) there should be no national sales tax. The poor that spend most of their income on subsistence items would effectively pay less taxes. The rich that buy expensive items would pay more. I think the proposed rate would be 23% (under the FairTax proposal).

On the other side of the coin, most all of us receive, directly or indirectly, more government benefit than we pay for in taxes. For example, Wyoming spends $13,000 per student on K-12 education. I doubt that the typical family with two kids is paying $26,000 in taxes after FICA for this benefit. Nobody, liberal or conservative is willing to acknowledge that they are part of the problem, so nobody is willing to be part of the solution.

What you are forgetting is tax payers pay for K-12 education even after their kids graduate. In Texas even retired folks that don't have income (other than investments) pay for K-12 education in the form of property taxes. Even people that rent all their lives are paying for it (it is effectively part of their rent).

Meanwhile, the best and least painful solution is something that everybody expects the other guy to do as well. The only way we really get out of this mess is to grow the economy. Sure, we need to cut spending and we probably need to increase taxes (though my opinion is it needs to be a payroll tax increase,) but the only way we really solve this mess is to become more productive, produce more stuff, and grow our GDP. Yet again, the same responses arise. Everyone looks to the successful entreprenuers, corporations, and yes, even governments that are being vilified right now to turn the economy around, when it is really the little guy who will do it. It's the guy with an idea and a willingness to bear risk who is the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Mark Zuckerberg, and that guy will never create tomorrow's economy if he thinks it's someone else's job today.

We Americans should be ashamed of ourselves.

The stimulus was not spent well, IMO. What creates more private sector jobs than anything else is the entrepreneur and the small business. Government jobs filling potholes only creates temporary jobs. The economy got a shot of adrenalin from the stimulus but that seemed to wear off quickly. A lot of the old jobs are not coming back. In retail, for example, Circuit City, CompUSA, Borders, KB Toys are all pretty much dead. It seems a lot of retail is going to companies like Amazon now. The housing market has imploded and it seems there is a still a surplus of inventory. It may be a while before if the construction worker starts building a significant number of new homes. The stimulus should have invested in the entrepreneurs who will be creating the jobs of the future. Bailing out the banks transferred effectively transferred their debt to us. Bailing out GM just added some more life support to a company that really needs to make some major changes. We may have been off if the government invested in a car company like Tesla Motors that is coming up with game changing ideas.

I agree it will be the little guy that will turn this economy around but the government isn't really helping this group. Things like rising health care costs and government mandates are killing a lot of these small businesses before they can really get off the ground, IMO. The new health care law isn't helping keep health care costs down and small businesses can't afford their health insurance premiums starting out. Real health care reform would have don't something about the rising costs (like increased competition in the health care market).

We Americans should be ashamed of voting in some of the "leadership" that we did. I am getting tired of great ideas not getting out of committees because the same old Democrapublican BS politics. Obama is really not a lot different than Bush. For example, he has only really increased spending and we are still not out of these senseless wars. I guess this is why I started voting for the Libertarians years ago.

[Moliere]

This is an interesting thread in light of recent events with the US Treasury downgrade. It seems to me that this is everyone's problem, and nobody wants to own it. Liberals think the 'rich' (whatever the hell that means) should pay more than the 80 to 90 percent they already pay, conservatives think that they shouldn't have to pay for the benefits they are receiving or the liabilities that they have assumed as members of the republic, and everyone else thinks that it's somebody else's responsibility to get the economy rolling so they can have a job. That's why nothing gets done, and that's why US Treasuries are now no longer the safest investment in the world.

The fact is, that the rich have already created jobs on their way to becoming rich. Taking their money away now will only discourage others from trying to get rich and creating jobs in the process. On the other side of the coin, most all of us receive, directly or indirectly, more government benefit than we pay for in taxes. For example, Wyoming spends $13,000 per student on K-12 education. I doubt that the typical family with two kids is paying $26,000 in taxes after FICA for this benefit. Nobody, liberal or conservative is willing to acknowledge that they are part of the problem, so nobody is willing to be part of the solution.

Meanwhile, the best and least painful solution is something that everybody expects the other guy to do as well. The only way we really get out of this mess is to grow the economy. Sure, we need to cut spending and we probably need to increase taxes (though my opinion is it needs to be a payroll tax increase,) but the only way we really solve this mess is to become more productive, produce more stuff, and grow our GDP. Yet again, the same responses arise. Everyone looks to the successful entreprenuers, corporations, and yes, even governments that are being vilified right now to turn the economy around, when it is really the little guy who will do it. It's the guy with an idea and a willingness to bear risk who is the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Mark Zuckerberg, and that guy will never create tomorrow's economy if he thinks it's someone else's job today.

We Americans should be ashamed of ourselves.

You titled this thread something like "what would you give up?" which immediately forms a bias. Of course people didn't suggest expanding a business or starting a new venture due to the title of the thread.

So with your latest post in mind, here's my revised solution: I'm going to invent some really cool product, sell it internationally, execute an IPO, and dethrone Zuckerberg as the richest American under 40. Boom britches!

[Katy Lied]

I will never give up my social security. I've paid into it, and just because others havent, and the government has spent my SS Savings on other programs doesn't mean I will give it up.

I will give up the tithing deduction and the mortgage deduction. I will also pay more for car registration (road taxes) and gas taxes.