What Are You Willing to Give Up?

[jay santos]

Hey, I'm only talking about the additional credit, not the child tax credit. It's disgusting that removing that one credit would double my tax bill.

Yeah I've talked for years how ridiculous the tax laws are in favor of someone like me. Five kids, tithing, mortgage, 401K. Someone in my situation can make well into six figures before the pay the gov a dime in income tax.

[il Padrino Ute]

I'd accept a drastic reduction or outright elimination of my future social security benefits, eliminate the deduction for paying tithing, and remove the Bush tax cuts. I'd also bring all the soldiers home, drastically reduce military/contract spending, and remove the corporate tax loopholes.

Fixed that for you. You weren't supposed to list things that other people would give up.

[il Padrino Ute]

This will sound like an odd analogy, but the water systems throughout the United States lose around 17% of their water through leakage and inefficient delivery systems. In Europe, due in part the age of their systems, the number is well over 22%. It's regrettable but unavoidable given the age of the systems and other inefficiencies.

Similarly, although the notion that government wastes money and is inefficient is hardly a newsflash, unless one does away with government altogether (save the jokes--anarchists are either evil or morons), there will always be waste, fraud, corruption, leakage. But those facts shouldn't discourage us from trying to reduce the leakage. It's been done in the past, and it can be done now.

Fair enough. I just don't trust the progressives in Washington enough to do the right thing.

Back on topic, and it's an interesting one, I'd favor the immediate elimination of the Bush tax cuts, while keeping capital gains unchanged (although take away cap gains altogether for hedge fund managers), while working toward a simplified tax system in the years ahead. Push the SS eligibility age to 70 or so, and raise the earnings cap. And I'd be okay with an element of means testing.

I'd be okay with this as well. Tim mentioned the elimination of tithing deduction, which is something I agree with, though I've never deducted tithing or any other charitable donations, so that wouldn't change much.

[Uncle Ted]

I'd accept a drastic reduction or outright elimination of my future social security benefits, eliminate the deduction for paying tithing, and remove the Bush tax cuts. I'd also bring all the soldiers home, drastically reduce military/contract spending, and remove the corporate tax loopholes.

If we are changing the rules then I'll list a bunch of things that *I* and John Stossel are willing give up...

Defense cut by 2/3: $475 billion (Federal Budget, pg. 58)
Medicare/Medicaid*: $441 billion (Cato Institute)
Social Security Means Testing: $170 billion (Heritage Foundation)
Eliminate Dept. of Education (includes Pell Grants): $106.9 billion (Cato Institute)
Social Security*: $85.7 billion (Cato Institute)
Eliminate Dept. of Transportation: $84.8 billion (Cato Institute)
Tax Amnesty: $80 billion (Rep. Jared Polis D-Co.)
Eliminate Dept. of Labor*: $78.6 billion (Department of Labor and White House)
Eliminate HUD: $60.8 billion (Cato Institute)
Eliminate Dept. of Agriculture*: $33 billion (Cato Institute)
Cut civilian employee compensation: $30 billion (Cato Institute)
Stop maintaining vacant federal property: $25 billion (Heritage Foundation)
Eliminate Foreign Aid: $21.2 billion (Cato Institute)
Eliminate Dept. of Energy*: $20.8 billion (Cato Institute)
Eliminate NASA: $19.6 billion (Cato Institute)
Federal Drug War: $15 billion (White House)
Earmark moratorium: $16 billion (Heritage Foundation)
Eliminate Fannie/Freddie Subsidies: $14 billion (Federal Housing Finance Agency (p. 10))
Eliminate Dept. of Commerce: $13.9 billion (Department of Commerce)
Eliminate Dept. of Interior: $12 billion (White House)
Legalize Pot, Online gambling, Immigrants: $12 billion (Rep. Jared Polis D-Co.)
Privatize Army Corps of Engineers: $10.6 billion (Cato Institute)
Cut federal employee travel budget: $10 billion (Heritage Foundation)
Eliminate National Science Foundation: $7.4 billion (National Science Foundation)
End EPA’s State and Local grants: $6.5 billion (Cato Institute)
Repeal Davis-Bacon: $6 billion (Republican Study Committee)
Privatize TSA: $5.7 billion (Federal Budget)
Cut Dept. of Justice’s State and Local grants: $5 billion (Heritage Foundation)
Privatize Post Office: $4 billion (White House)
Eliminate Small Business Administration: $1.8 billion (Small Business Administration)
Lease coastal plain of ANWR: $1.5 billion (Heritage Foundation)
Eliminate Federal Flood Insurance: $1.3 billion (CBO, pg. 3)
Abolish SEC: $1.3 billion (SEC)
Eliminate Corporation for National Community Service: $1 billion (Cato Institute)
Suspend acquisition of federal office space: $1 billion (Heritage Foundation)
End subsidies for public broadcasting: $500 million (Cato Institute)
Eliminate the Neighborhood Reinvestment Corp: $480 million (Heritage Foundation)
Eliminate the FCC: $439 million (FCC)
Eliminate the Endowments for Arts/Humanities: $332 million (NEA/NEH)
Total Cut: $1,882,619,000,000
Current deficit: $1,645,000,000,000
Surplus Achieved: $237,619,000,000
(Research by Maxim Lott and Charles Couger.)

--
*Notes
Department of Energy is eliminated except for Nuclear arms maintenance
Department of Agriculture is eliminated, except for food programs for the needy
Department of Labor is eliminated, except for 26-week unemployment benefits
Defense budget would still be $243 billion, more than twice what the next highest country (China) spends
Medicare and Medicaid savings breakdown:
Block grant Medicaid and freeze spending (226)
Repeal 2010 healthcare law (87)
Increase Medicare premiums (39.8)
Cut non-Medicare premiums (37.7)
Cut Medicare payment error rate by 50% (28.6)
Increase Medicare deductibles (12.6)
Tort Reform (10)
Social Security savings breakdown:
Price index initial benefits** 41.1
Raise the normal retirement age** 31.4
Cut Social Security disability program by 10% 13.2

[ERCougar]

Good thread.
I think that most thinking people in my generation have accepted the notion that SS is unsustainable, and if they havent, they should. We need to just codify it now, so everyone can plan for it.

[il Padrino Ute]

If we are changing the rules then I'll list a bunch of things that *I* and John Stossel are willing give up...

Add the Dept. of Education to that list as well. Also, have Congress and the Senate go back to being a part time job as the Founders had intended it to be, so we can eliminate their salaries and pensions. Just pay them for the few weeks they would spend in DC doing their government business then send them back home to their real jobs.

[Uncle Ted]

Add the Dept. of Education to that list as well.

The dept of bad cartoons that my kids hate is on there...

Eliminate Dept. of Education (includes Pell Grants): $106.9 billion (Cato Institute)

[il Padrino Ute]

The dept of bad cartoons that my kids hate is on there...

I missed that. Awesome.

dept. of bad cartoons that my kids hate. Excellent.

[cowboy]

Some of you don't follow directions very well. If it doesn't increase what you pay, or decrease what the government directly pays you next year, it doesn't count. ie, giving up SS in twenty years doesn't work.

Also, you have to count FICA. Your tax bill with 100k income may only be 5k, but with FICA it's over 17k. Therefore, your proposal has to show a net increase/savings of 7,500.

I find it interesting that nobody has decided to make up the difference by making more money, either by starting another business or getting another job.

[Devildog]

What are we willing to give up?

How about what is the government willing to give up?

We could all sacrifice more... and these clowns in Washington will still spend every penny and still borrow more.

This needs to be a two way street.

[il Padrino Ute]

Some of you don't follow directions very well. If it doesn't increase what you pay, or decrease what the government directly pays you next year, it doesn't count. ie, giving up SS in twenty years doesn't work.

Also, you have to count FICA. Your tax bill with 100k income may only be 5k, but with FICA it's over 17k. Therefore, your proposal has to show a net increase/savings of 7,500.

I find it interesting that nobody has decided to make up the difference by making more money, either by starting another business or getting another job.

It's tough to start another business or find another job in this economic climate. Nothing we do will help unless the federal government is willing to sacrifice as well.

[byu71]

PAC echoed an observation that I have noted as well, that we all want to solve the deficit problem by making the other guy pay. This is your chance to put your money where your mouth is, and tell us what you are willing to do to solve the deficit. Here are the rules.

1) You have to find a way to give the government 1.5 times what you are giving now. That's roughly what it will take to balance the budget.

2) Your contribution can be through tax revenues or savings.

3) Your contribution must come from you. In other words, it must directly affect you by 1.5 times what you are giving to or taking from the government.

I'll start first.

My contribution will come from a combination of tax increases and cost savings, and it entails three things:

1) FICA tax increase. I'm willing to increase the FICA I pay back up to 15.5%

2) Farm subsidies. I'm willing to eliminate the subsidy I receive as a DCP every year.

3) Operation expansion. I will expand my operation by 10%, which will put me in a higher tax bracket. I know this may be what you were thinking, but the rules are that you have to increase what you pay to the government, not that you have to increase the proportion you pay.


Your turn.

I would have to know what defecit you are talking about.

If you are talking about current deficits, current spending less current revenue, I am not willing to give up anything. I have my reasons, but you didn't ask for that.

If my sacrifice goes directly against the current debt we have already incurred, I would be willing to sacrifice the following:

My charitable gift deduction.

My mortgage deduction

I would be willing to wait until 69 for my Social Security

I would accept a 5% marginal tax rate increase.

[Uncle Ted]

I find it interesting that nobody has decided to make up the difference by making more money, either by starting another business or getting another job.

[venkman]

What are we willing to give up?

How about what is the government willing to give up?

We could all sacrifice more... and these clowns in Washington will still spend every penny and still borrow more.

This needs to be a two way street.

[The_Tick]

I will give up the tithing deduction. I will give up the Mortgage deduction. I will also give up my child tax credit. Not just the new one...the entire credit. (Easy for me to say, since I only get to claim 1 kid...but it would hurt for the next 5 years.)

That is where I would start.