Adam and Steve can now get married in NY...

[byu71]

Yeah probably. However, mockery is a fairly light sentence given what gay people have been through in our society.

My guess is that over time there will be fewer and fewer people feel that gay marriage is wrong and immoral (a big leap I know). There is almost no doubt that these people's ideas will be marginalized in society. However, I am sure there will always be some people that will dislike the notion of married gay couples. Don't worry Levin you will always be able to find some like-minded people. If you desire you will be able meet together and plan marches or rallies for your cause. Thanks to this great nation of ours you can continue to protest in the streets even when the rest of the nation shakes their head at you. Hell, there is still people today that think that Jim Crow law was a great idea and they are free to believe and speak what they like though their speech be layered in bigotry. Isn't this country great?

Yea, over time we will get used to it. I have stated consistently I am anti gay marriage, but if it comes to the whole US, I don't really care that much.

Perhaps the more gays are accepted into the "norms", the less I will have to see coverage of those obnoxious "gay" parades.

[Uncle Ted]

Yea, over time we will get used to it. I have stated consistently I am anti gay marriage, but if it comes to the whole US, I don't really care that much.

Perhaps the more gays are accepted into the "norms", the less I will have to see coverage of those obnoxious "gay" parades.

Of course, then something else to march and parade about will just comes along...

[U-Ute]

This is ironic. How will the legitimization of gay marriage affect people who don't agree with gay marriage? Louis CK says it won't at all . . . as he calls them stupid, idiots, and their children ugly faggots.

Dude. He's a comedian.

[wuapinmon]

the mockery and scorn just in this little outpost of the Internet by some active members of the Church says all we need to know about the future for those who disagree. It will be one whole shitload of DDD's pitiful and plastic arrogance; the mockery of never taking it seriously.

Get with the times, man. People disagree over social problems; it's an eternal fact of life.

[Jacob]

Really? That was one of the standard arguments during the Prop 8 blitz. That it would drastically change all of our lives, especially those who are children.

I didn't see that. Certainly not as one of the principal arguments. I'm sure somebody has made that argument. People make lots of dumb arguments. Is there an example of a person of import making the argument that we need to oppose gay marriage because creating the new institution would greatly alter the individual lives of non-gays?

[BlueHair]

Dude. He's a comedian.

Levin is a blast at comedy clubs. You should see him break down how Rodney Dangerfield lied about not getting respect.

[TripletDaddy]

That's extreme, but the mockery and scorn just in this little outpost of the Internet by some active members of the Church says all we need to know about the future for those who disagree. It will be one whole shitload of DDD's pitiful and plastic arrogance; the mockery of never taking it seriously.

I used to take it seriously. When I was younger, I thought what everyone else at Church thought about gays...in fact, what we were taught about homosexuality.....gays were sinful, they were perverts, they could be cured through prayer or singing hymns, they were more likely to molest children, that S&G was destroyed because of gays, etc.

Eventually, I did some thinking on my own and stopped holding those previously held beliefs. Apparently you have done some thinking on your own and still hold those beliefs. That is your prerogative. But just because you say the sky will eventually fall doesn't mean that it will. I've looked up at the sky....it looks pretty stable to me.

[Green Monstah]

I didn't see that. Certainly not as one of the principal arguments. I'm sure somebody has made that argument. People make lots of dumb arguments. Is there an example of a person of import making the argument that we need to oppose gay marriage because creating the new institution would greatly alter the individual lives of non-gays?

But, why oppose it then? Uh...I think that's the only arguments there were, bro. Different variations, but at the very least people would say, "It devalues het'ro marriage."

Did you oppose it because TSM asked you to?

[Jacob]

But, why oppose it then? Uh...I think that's the only arguments there were, bro. Different variations, but at the very least people would say, "It devalues het'ro marriage."

Did you oppose it because TSM asked you to?

"It devalues hetero marriage" is not remotely similar to "It will greatly affect my life." If you are really not familiar with the arguments against it, I can provide a few links.

[Green Monstah]

"It devalues hetero marriage" is not remotely similar to "It will greatly affect my life." If you are really not familiar with the arguments against it, I can provide a few links.

Why not speak for yourself?

Well, if hetero marriage is something very valuable to you (even the idea of it), which I'd venture to guess is true of most opponents, and marriage is devalued by gay marriage, then igay marriage would greatly affect an opponent's life, wouldn't it? The alternative is that you don't value hetero marriage highly, which isn't something you'd agree with, right?

I think it's odd to say that there are lots of reasons to oppose other than that gay marriage will affect your life, but you don't give any.

[Jacob]

Why not speak for yourself?

Well, if hetero marriage is something very valuable to you (even the idea of it), which I'd venture to guess is true of most opponents, and marriage is devalued by gay marriage, then igay marriage would greatly affect an opponent's life, wouldn't it? The alternative is that you don't value hetero marriage highly, which isn't something you'd agree with, right?

I think it's odd to say that there are lots of reasons to oppose other than that gay marriage will affect your life, but you don't give any.

We seem to be going in circles. I'm not interested in debating the topic with you as I think it's been beaten to death and you don't seem to want a reasonable discussion.

You said that opponents will be surprised at how little it affects their lives. I disagree. I oppose it and don't expect it to have much affect on my life. People I know largely agree with me.

[TripletDaddy]

Some of the arguments that were offered up during the election included the following re gay marriage:

1. It would lead to indoctrination of our children in school
2. It would lead to a mandate requiring gay marriages to be performed in our temple
3. It would require us to recognize gay marriages at Church
4. It would require us to make our facilities available for gay marriages
5. It would lead to a destruction of democracy (there was one pamphlet that we were asked to distribute that was entertaining in how over the top it was...this particular "risk" was humorous at best)
6. It might lead to the ability of our neighbors to marry our pets and our plants.

There were loads of these sorts of arguments offered up. I would say that these things would affect my daily life....how my Church is forced to operate, what happens inside the temple, and what my children are taught at school.

Apparently you do not think those things affect your daily life. Perhaps you are being literal. To that extent, you are probably correct, unless you teach in a public school or go to the temple every single day.

[Green Monstah]

We seem to be going in circles. I'm not interested in debating the topic with you as I think it's been beaten to death and you don't seem to want a reasonable discussion.

You said that opponents will be surprised at how little it affects their lives. I disagree. I oppose it and don't expect it to have much affect on my life. People I know largely agree with me.

Alright. I don't think I was being unreasonable. I was asking you a question that you were dodging. If you think it's been beaten to death, that's fine.

[Jacob]

Now who's being unreasonable?

1. The people I know largely agree that gay marriage will have little affect on their lives.

2. Therefore, all opponents of gay marriage believe that gay marriage will have little affect on their lives.

I'm asking you a question that you're not answering. If you think it's been beaten, that's fine. I simply haven't heard anyone argue that gay marriage won't affect their life, but they're still opposed to it, and you've piqued my curiousity.

I didn't reach the conclusion you are jumping to in #2.

I think marriage is a useful institution.
Before the government changes that institution, I think there ought to be a compelling reason. I haven't heard that compelling reason. That's my first objection. We can call this the conservative opposition.
Alternatively stated: There's no good reason to change marriage.
I think you'll agree that this reason for opposition has nothing to do with whether it will affect my life, or yours.

[Flystripper]

Alternatively stated: There's no good reason to change marriage.

So interracial marriage was a good enough reason to change marriage, but gay marriage is not. You might be on to something. Interracial couples should have been happy with a civil union. Imagine what society would be like today if this were the case! I am sure we all would be in a better place. Well at least some people would know their place!