The Energy Thread

[Uncle Ted]

Grandpa Joe sez we are shutting down all the coal plants...

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Machin has a few words to say about that: [Crazy Joe's remarks are] “outrageous and divorced from reality” and suggesting it’s “time he learn a lesson.”



Get the popcorn... it's a rat fight.

[Moliere]

2016 case study on commercial conversion: https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/3...31876_DS1.pdf?

Thanks, that’s interesting. It doesn’t totally cover the overall impact to the grid but it definitely shows it’s not insignificant. I worked for the local utility in Houston and juts getting it approved to install smart meters (and pass through the cost) was a huge undertaking. I suspect this will be bigger. My hope is the electric never takes off and something else is found. Something less harmful to the environment.

[Jeff Lebowski]

One thing that interests me but I haven't time to research is how much the electrical grid will need to be upgraded to support an all electric vehicle fleet. I imagine it's a lot and the cost will be enormous and there's no way the municipalities can get that done in time to support the 2035 or 2050 deadline.

I think I posted it here somewhere, but California will need something like 29 new nuclear plants and a massive overhaul of their power grid to make their 2035 deadline feasible. Not to mention what it means in terms of mining lithium, cobalt, nickel, etc.

We need some breakthroughs in battery technology. I tend to think we will engineer our way through this somehow. I am bullish on the future in this regard, in spite of my joking about fusion.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I could see a car system similar to Blue Rhino propane. You pull in, swap the battery out, and drive on. You pay for the recharge. No one would own their batteries. But, making sure that the system doesn't go down, or has redundancies (like universal solar setups on homes), or a system of hybrids, will be crucial for making an electric fleet work for individual use.

This was explored pretty heavily a few years ago, but the mechanics/physics would be difficult. The batteries on an EV are big and heavy.

[wuapinmon]

I could see a car system similar to Blue Rhino propane. You pull in, swap the battery out, and drive on. You pay for the recharge. No one would own their batteries. But, making sure that the system doesn't go down, or has redundancies (like universal solar setups on homes), or a system of hybrids, will be crucial for making an electric fleet work for individual use.

[wuapinmon]

One thing that interests me but I haven't time to research is how much the electrical grid will need to be upgraded to support an all electric vehicle fleet. I imagine it's a lot and the cost will be enormous and there's no way the municipalities can get that done in time to support the 2035 or 2050 deadline.

2016 case study on commercial conversion: https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/3...31876_DS1.pdf?

Deploying EVs in fleet service can be an attractive financial proposition that also has significant environmental and health advantages. These advantages will only be magnified by the next generation, long-range EVs that will be available in late 2016. Obviously, the most significant economic benefit is in the reduction of petroleum based fuels, and not only in the fuel used while in motion. Utilizing EVs in the fleet environment offers an impressive list of advantages, but in the end the deployment of an EV must provide enough savings to justify its purchase. These savings can be achieved by making sure that the EV’s utilization rate is high and that its duty and drive cycles maximize its fuel and maintenance savings. The operating expense of EVs is a very attractive reason to consider their deployment in a fleet environment. EVs are mechanically simpler that CFVs, having no transmission, cooling and lubrication systems obviously results in much lower maintenance cost and significantly improves the availability of fleet vehicles. Early adopter concerns about battery durability and maintenance cost has dissipated. The City of Seattle had Idaho National Labs test the traction batteries in their EV fleet vehicles halfway through their 10-year life cycle, which confirmed that they were still in excellent condition. The electricity fuel equivalent cost for fleet EVs is generally less than $1.00 per gallon. Infrastructure considerations are not insignificant. Capital expense for charging infrastructure can vary widely. A $750 single port Level 2 charger may be able to support one or two EVs, and a $6000 Level 2 multiport charger can service the needs of a small EV fleet. The $35,000 expense of a DC Fast Charger can be justified if the deployed EV fleet size and need is significant.

[Moliere]

One thing that interests me but I haven't time to research is how much the electrical grid will need to be upgraded to support an all electric vehicle fleet. I imagine it's a lot and the cost will be enormous and there's no way the municipalities can get that done in time to support the 2035 or 2050 deadline.

[Bo Diddley]

No. Maybe 30 years later.

[Jeff Lebowski]

All electric by 3035... I can hardy wait!

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Do you think we will have fusion power by then?

No. Maybe 30 years later.

[Uncle Ted]

All electric by 3035... I can hardy wait!

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Do you think we will have fusion power by then?

[All-American]

https://www.newsweek.com/nuclear-fus...-1755116?amp=1

Notes that industry leaders are confident net fusion power will be achieved in the “early 2030s,” with some Chinese scientists aiming for commercialization by 2035.

Believe them or not, they are staking claims within the fifteen-year period that supposedly perpetually separates us from fusion (which used to be twenty years or thirty years).

The article also explains why there is cause to believe we are finally gaining ground on that shifting target. It’s not just time we need to get to fusion; we need years of effort and investment to unlock it. We’ve never been willing to do that when we could just burn cheap fossil fuels. Climate change, and now geopolitical conflict, is impacting our ability to rest on our laurels. We need alternatives.

[beefytee]

A BYU professor is all in on the Molten Salt Nuclear reactor.

BYU professors create reactor designed to safely produce nuclear energy. Here's how it works | KSL.com

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yet another approach aspiring to generate electricity for the grid by the 2030’s. This one is most notable for the apararus’s nickname, the “Big Friendly Gun,” which I guarantee you right here and right now is not the actual name they use for it.

https://www.newsweek.com/first-light...-1754934?amp=1

Lol. Right on target for fusion technology.

Hawker expects the First Light Fusion reactor to be generating usable electricity in the 2030s and for power to be on the grid by the following decade.

[BigFatMeanie]

It's the BFG! Ahh, that brings back memories:

BFG.jpg

[All-American]

Yet another approach aspiring to generate electricity for the grid by the 2030’s. This one is most notable for the apararus’s nickname, the “Big Friendly Gun,” which I guarantee you right here and right now is not the actual name they use for it.

https://www.newsweek.com/first-light...-1754934?amp=1