I love Utah politics

[Jeff Lebowski]

Sorry, funk. McAdams concedes.

[USUC]

I guess we'll find out if Owens was Trumpy to get elected or if he really believes it. We won't know if the GOP will distance itself until after the Georgia runoffs.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Sorry, funk. McAdams concedes.

The unpleasantness was all for naught.

[BigFatMeanie]

I guess we'll find out if Owens was Trumpy to get elected or if he really believes it. We won't know if the GOP will distance itself until after the Georgia runoffs.

My money is on the latter.

[USUC]

My money is on the latter.

I think the former (like almost all politicians), but it might be tough to tell if Trump keeps his influence in the party. Is there a GOP congressional member who hasn't catered themselves to Trump in the last 4 years? Maybe Sasse?

[BigFatMeanie]

I think the former (like almost all politicians), but it might be tough to tell if Trump keeps his influence in the party. Is there a GOP congressional member who hasn't catered themselves to Trump in the last 4 years? Maybe Sasse?

Mitt?

[USUC]

Mitt?

Ah, yes. I'm an idiot. One of my own senators. I'll also add Collins from Maine.

[Now who’s the dean?]

I'll also add Collins from Maine.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

But seriously though, Justin Amash. He left the GOP over Trump. But GOPers with a soul are mighty rare these days.

[Jeff Lebowski]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

But seriously though, Justin Amash. He left the GOP over Trump. But GOPers with a soul are mighty rare these days.

Gotta love purity test culture. You only have integrity if you actually leave the party.

[USUC]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

But seriously though, Justin Amash. He left the GOP over Trump. But GOPers with a soul are mighty rare these days.

My point is that politicians will be whatever keeps them in office. In the era of Trump, most GOP politicians have to act Trumpy to stay in office. This is consistent regardless of party. When I was in college there were pro life and pro gun Dems. They either disappeared or changed their stances to survive during the 2000s. I can tell most here have never worked in politics.

Maybe Owens is a principled Trumpist. But looking at his past, he seems like an opportunist like most other elected officials (especially those elected to the House). We'll soon see I guess.

[swampfrog]

Gotta love purity test culture. You only have integrity if you actually leave the party.

I think we can forget how complicated politics actually are. As Obama stated in his Atlantic interview, it's all about the votes:

Obama: Yes, what have you. And not publicly, but privately, I would remind people that Lyndon Johnson got stuff done because he had the votes. Simple. FDR got stuff done when he had the votes. And the truth of the matter is that most of the time, what we think of as arm-twisting and brow-beating—what it really comes down to most of the time is: Do you have the votes? When you look at getting the Affordable Care Act passed, not just getting it through the Senate but then working with Nancy Pelosi to get House Democrats to pass a Senate bill that they thought was not progressive enough, I worked my caucus effectively, and not once did I grab someone by the lapels in an elevator or engage in a bunch of dirty tricks to get someone to do something.

It turns out that where I fell short in getting everything I wanted, it really comes down to the factors we’ve already discussed—the filibuster in place in the Senate, which meant you had to get 60 votes on everything. That was true in my first month in office. We had a huge and an obvious economic crisis, and we were able to squeak out a few Republican votes to get [the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act] passed. And one of those Republicans, Arlen Specter, was chased out of the party for having voted for an emergency package that we know now Republicans didn’t ideologically oppose, because they just passed a $2 trillion relief package with a Republican as president.

John McWhorter addressed this complexity yesterday in The Atlantic also.

However, I don’t find it baffling in the least that Black and Latino people might deem President Donald Trump worthy of their vote, despite the fact that I was most certainly not one of them. The non-white segment of Trump’s support demonstrates a gulf between how the “woke” left processes racism and how many people in the real world do. The former assumes that racism is a wedge issue, and the most cardinal of human sins; the latter are far less doctrinaire.

Even deeper into this topic from a Cuban American.

[Now who’s the dean?]

Gotta love purity test culture. You only have integrity if you actually leave the party.

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

[Now who’s the dean?]

My point is that politicians will be whatever keeps them in office. In the era of Trump, most GOP politicians have to act Trumpy to stay in office. This is consistent regardless of party. When I was in college there were pro life and pro gun Dems. They either disappeared or changed their stances to survive during the 2000s. I can tell most here have never worked in politics.

Maybe Owens is a principled Trumpist. But looking at his past, he seems like an opportunist like most other elected officials (especially those elected to the House). We'll soon see I guess.

Of course there are pro-life Ds and pro-gun Ds. So what? Not sure how Collins slide from disappointed to deeply disappointed to troubled and disappointed to deeply and tremendously disappointed and troubled, while continuing to do every damn thing he wanted, counts as opposition. Now if she had been deeply and severely troubled and grievously disappointed . . . . .

[wapiti]

Of course there are pro-life Ds and pro-gun Ds. So what? Not sure how Collins slide from disappointed to deeply disappointed to troubled and disappointed to deeply and tremendously disappointed and troubled, while continuing to do every damn thing he wanted, counts as opposition. Now if she had been deeply and severely troubled and grievously disappointed . . . . .

She seems to have played it perfectly.

[Now who’s the dean?]

She seems to have played it perfectly.

What she didn’t do was offer any opposition to Trump. At all.