Undocumented Aliens on my Land

[Green Monstah]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/04/20110204arizona-rancher-immigrant-assault-verdict-upheld.html

I'm not sure there's an easy answer to this, but I don't see anything wrong with detaining trespassers who are on your land and in your country illegally.

[TripletDaddy]

You see no problem detaning someone at gunpoint for cutting through a portion of your ranch? For trespass to be actionable, you need to show damages, otherwise you get the nominal $1 award. Why would you pull a gun on anyone unless you were trying to defend yourself?

Citizenship is irrelevant. You have no right to know the immigration status of those around you.

[Green Monstah]

You see no problem detaning someone at gunpoint for cutting through a portion of your ranch? For trespass to be actionable, you need to show damages, otherwise you get the nominal $1 award. Why would you pull a gun on anyone unless you were trying to defend yourself?

Citizenship is irrelevant. You have no right to know the immigration status of those around you.

You're describing a civil suit for trespass. There's such thing as criminal trespass as well.

Why would someone in southeastern arizona pull a gun on illegal immigrants trespassing on his land in the middle of the night? Ask this guy:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Krentz[/ame]

Seems like a pretty reasonable response, particularly if your property had been previously vandalized at the hands of illegal aliens.

Furthermore, once he determined they were unarmed, he put down his weapon.

[CardiacCoug]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ct-upheld.html

I'm not sure there's an easy answer to this, but I don't see anything wrong with detaining trespassers who are on your land and in your country illegally.

In Junior High, we used to cut through one of our neighbor's property as a shorter way home from school. He yelled at us a few times and told us to stay off his land.

You're saying he should have had the right to take us as hostages and determine whether or not we were US citizens?

[TripletDaddy]

Why would someone in southeastern arizona pull a gun on illegal immigrants trespassing on his land in the middle of the night? Ask this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Krentz

Seems like a pretty reasonable response, particularly if your property had been previously vandalized at the hands of illegal aliens.

Furthermore, once he determined they were unarmed, he put down his weapon.

Good for him, he must have needed to balance himself in order to kick the woman on the ground.

People get shot all the time. Trespass on your land does not rise to self defense. You mention that he put his gun away when he found out they were unarmed yet fail to mention that he drew a weapon despite not feeling threatened or being confronted. He was hunting, not acting in self defense.

I'm not for trespassing or for illegal immigration. But your initial post was a bit on the ridiculous side, at least in my opinion. If you can't see anything wrong wi private citizens taking the law into their own hands with guns, then go grab a gun and start fighting crime, I guess.

[TripletDaddy]

In Junior High, we used to cut through one of our neighbor's property as a shorter way home from school. He yelled at us a few times and told us to stay off his land.

You're saying he should have had the right to take us as hostages and determine whether or not we were US citizens?

Yes that I'd exactly what he is saying.

Except there is a racist component that he will fail to recognize...since your are white, you are not potentially dangerous. But mexicans, who are illegals, are potentially dangerous, hence the gun.

[Green Monstah]

In Junior High, we used to cut through one of our neighbor's property as a shorter way home from school. He yelled at us a few times and told us to stay off his land.

You're saying he should have had the right to take us as hostages and determine whether or not we were US citizens?

Out of curiosity, where was this? So when citizens witness a crime, they can take no private action to uphold the law? That's an honest question, I have no idea.

[DU Ute]

I pulled out my shotgun when some kids cut across my lawn. I put it away when I found out they weren't packing, so it's cool.

[Green Monstah]

Good for him, he must have needed to balance himself in order to kick the woman on the ground.

People get shot all the time. Trespass on your land does not rise to self defense. You mention that he put his gun away when he found out they were unarmed yet fail to mention that he drew a weapon despite not feeling threatened or being confronted. He was hunting, not acting in self defense.

I'm not for trespassing or for illegal immigration. But your initial post was a bit on the ridiculous side, at least in my opinion. If you can't see anything wrong wi private citizens taking the law into their own hands with guns, then go grab a gun and start fighting crime, I guess.

How do you know he wasn't threatened? If I were outnumbered 15 to 1 by people on your land illegally in the middle of the night, yes, I'd put a gun on them until I knew who they were or if they were armed. Seems fairly reasonable for a person in his situation.

I think the lady who got kicked has a valid claim.

[TripletDaddy]

Out of curiosity, where was this? So when citizens witness a crime, they can take no private action to uphold the law? That's an honest question, I have no idea.

Iirc from law school, a citizens arrest occurs when the person witnesses a felony. Trespass is not a felony. And neither is illegal immigration.

Next tme your are driving above the speed limit, maybe your wife should put a gun to your head until the cops can come and drive you away. Hopefully she doesn't kick you in your head while she is waiting for the cops to come get you.

[Green Monstah]

I pulled out my shotgun when some kids cut across my lawn. I put it away when I found out they weren't packing, so it's cool.

Of course, your analogy is fallacious. This isn't the backyard of a suburban neighborhood. It's the center of a hotbed of illegal immigration. It's an area where people dressed as Mexican Soldiers have trespassed and threatened ranchers, and it's a place where border patrol agents and private citizens have been murdered.

Not your backyard.

[TripletDaddy]

How do you know he wasn't threatened? If I were outnumbered 15 to 1 by people on your land illegally in the middle of the night, yes, I'd put a gun on them until I knew who they were or if they were armed. Seems fairly reasonable for a person in his situation.

I think the lady who got kicked has a valid claim.

I read the link you provided.

"Appellant himself conceded on the stand, however, that none of the plaintiffs were armed or threatened him in any other way," the judges wrote in their ruling. "As a result, the evidence adduced at trial did not support a self-defense instruction."

[Green Monstah]

Iirc from law school, a citizens arrest occurs when the person witnesses a felony. Trespass is not a felony. And neither is illegal immigration.

Next tme your are driving above the speed limit, maybe your wife should put a gun to your head until the cops can come and drive you away. Hopefully she doesn't kick you in your head while she is waiting for the cops to come get you.

Interesting....I would have never guessed that illegal immigration was not a felony.

Stupid example.

[Green Monstah]

I read the link you provided.

D'oh!

[CardiacCoug]

Out of curiosity, where was this? So when citizens witness a crime, they can take no private action to uphold the law? That's an honest question, I have no idea.

It was Utah.

Sure, they can take action to uphold the law -- by calling the police.