Undocumented Aliens on my Land

[Commando]

I don't know if there's anything on this Earth less threatening than a band of Mexicans-- men, women, children, elderlies-- fleeing through the night on their way to prosperity.


I can see how they would be "threatening" to xenophobes and racists, though. That's why the asshole lost in court-- because he was wrong. What's to debate?

[wuapinmon]

[Uncle Ted]

I don't know if there's anything on this Earth less threatening than a band of Mexicans-- men, women, children, elderlies-- fleeing through the night on their way to prosperity.


I can see how they would be "threatening" to xenophobes and racists, though. That's why the asshole lost in court-- because he was wrong. What's to debate?

Mexicans? Mexicans are friends. We are talking about aliens.

[Green Monstah]

I don't know if there's anything on this Earth less threatening than a band of Mexicans-- men, women, children, elderlies-- fleeing through the night on their way to prosperity.


I can see how they would be "threatening" to xenophobes and racists, though. That's why the asshole lost in court-- because he was wrong. What's to debate?

Oh brother.

You can't think of any circumstances where a person living near the Mexican-Arizona border would feel threatened by tresspassers in the dead of night? Really? I'm quite fond of latino people in general, so it's not about racism or xenophobia, but I'm also a fan of no trespassing signs, and the right to exclude others from your property if you don't want them there. Do I think a person has the right to light people up for mere tresspassing? Nope. But if I'm in his shoes, I simply think it's a reasonable response to intruders entering his property under the cover of darkness.

Short of building a concrete wall, I'm not sure what else Barnett can do to protect his right to exclude (and quite frankly I'm not sure it would be effective considering the tunnels that have been found along the border), and that's pretty pathetic in my opinion.

As I said, there are no easy answers that will both (a) protect Barnett's property rights and (b) preserve the illegal immigrant's right to be free from emotional distress....

I'm reading more on this, and what I don't understand is that the girl who was kicked had her suit dismissed by the court. Seems like the one person who had some form of actual, measurable damages....

[Moliere]

This really is a no win situation for the ranchers in Arizona. I'm an open border guy who would love to see a temporary worker program for the latinos that want to come work here. I've even put my idea on CUF before.

Chances are this rancher has people pass through his property all the time. Chances are these people leave trash and other stuff on his property. Chances are that this guys property is too large to adequately fence off and he probably doesn't want to fence it off. Chances are these people couldn't care less if there is a no trespassing sign on his property.

So the rancher is stuck with roving bands of people coming across his property, which probably costs him a nominal amount of money to clean up after them, and he is sick of it. If someone TP'd my house once a year I'd find it funny. If they did it every week I'd get annoyed and probably call the constable who would likely take care of it. These ranchers likely don't have anyone to call to help out so they are left with ignoring/putting up with what's happening or taking the law into their own hands.

An open border or temp worker program would fix this situation. These people most likely cross private lands because they don't want to go walking around on highways where they will be seen. Make it so they can easily work here legally and they won't be afraid and can use buses, walk on roads, or drive their own cars around with fear of deportation.

[Babs]

This really is a no win situation for the ranchers in Arizona. I'm an open border guy who would love to see a temporary worker program for the latinos that want to come work here. I've even put my idea on CUF before.

Chances are this rancher has people pass through his property all the time. Chances are these people leave trash and other stuff on his property. Chances are that this guys property is too large to adequately fence off and he probably doesn't want to fence it off. Chances are these people couldn't care less if there is a no trespassing sign on his property.

So the rancher is stuck with roving bands of people coming across his property, which probably costs him a nominal amount of money to clean up after them, and he is sick of it.

It doesn't sound like it's nominal in his case. Over the last decade, border patrol agents have apprehended over 1200 immigrants on his property. He says his irrigation system has been damaged so many times (presumably by immigrants trying to get water) that he finally just gave up and had a tap put in. He claims he loses livestock due to the litter. His house has been broken into more than once.

So Redsox sort of has a point. This guy didn't just wake up one morning and see some kids on his property. His land has apparently been the regional crossover of choice for a very long time, he's suffered considerable property loss, and he fears for his family's safety.

That said, he's clearly now a man on a vigilante mission. Border patrol agents testified that at night the man hides on his property in camo with a shotgun, just waiting for his next quarry to come creeping across his border.

[wuapinmon]

Oh brother.

You can't think of any circumstances where a person living near the Mexican-Arizona border would feel threatened by tresspassers in the dead of night? Really? I'm quite fond of latino people in general, so it's not about racism or xenophobia, but I'm also a fan of no trespassing signs, and the right to exclude others from your property if you don't want them there. Do I think a person has the right to light people up for mere tresspassing? Nope. But if I'm in his shoes, I simply think it's a reasonable response to intruders entering his property under the cover of darkness.

Short of building a concrete wall, I'm not sure what else Barnett can do to protect his right to exclude (and quite frankly I'm not sure it would be effective considering the tunnels that have been found along the border), and that's pretty pathetic in my opinion.

As I said, there are no easy answers that will both (a) protect Barnett's property rights and (b) preserve the illegal immigrant's right to be free from emotional distress....

I'm reading more on this, and what I don't understand is that the girl who was kicked had her suit dismissed by the court. Seems like the one person who had some form of actual, measurable damages....

FTFA

This is the second verdict against Barnett, whose attempts to keep illegal immigrants off his land in southeastern Arizona have won him praise and condemnation. In 2008, the Arizona Supreme Court upheld a nearly $100,000 judgment against the rancher for detaining a family of Latino U.S. citizens -- including two children -- at gunpoint.

There's a big difference between firing off a shot into the night to scare unarmed people off your property. It's another thing entirely to hold unarmed children at gunpoint. This man has the Minuteman sickness.

[Babs]

FTFA


There's a big difference between firing off a shot into the night to scare unarmed people off your property. It's another thing entirely to hold unarmed children at gunpoint. This man has the Minuteman sickness.

Yeah, the guy is clearly a borderline (ha! I kill me!!) case. He's got half a dozen suits against him.

[Green Monstah]

FTFA


There's a big difference between firing off a shot into the night to scare unarmed people off your property. It's another thing entirely to hold unarmed children at gunpoint. This man has the Minuteman sickness.

I saw that. Not cool.

[TripletDaddy]

Yeah, the guy is clearly a borderline (ha! I kill me!!) case. He's got half a dozen suits against him.

your insensitive humor is alien to me.

[Green Monstah]

This really is a no win situation for the ranchers in Arizona. I'm an open border guy who would love to see a temporary worker program for the latinos that want to come work here. I've even put my idea on CUF before.

Chances are this rancher has people pass through his property all the time. Chances are these people leave trash and other stuff on his property. Chances are that this guys property is too large to adequately fence off and he probably doesn't want to fence it off. Chances are these people couldn't care less if there is a no trespassing sign on his property.

So the rancher is stuck with roving bands of people coming across his property, which probably costs him a nominal amount of money to clean up after them, and he is sick of it. If someone TP'd my house once a year I'd find it funny. If they did it every week I'd get annoyed and probably call the constable who would likely take care of it. These ranchers likely don't have anyone to call to help out so they are left with ignoring/putting up with what's happening or taking the law into their own hands.

An open border or temp worker program would fix this situation. These people most likely cross private lands because they don't want to go walking around on highways where they will be seen. Make it so they can easily work here legally and they won't be afraid and can use buses, walk on roads, or drive their own cars around with fear of deportation.

I agree completely. I'm not afraid of undocumented workers who are here to better their lives and their families' lives. I went to high school with several children of illegal immigrants (some of whom also told me that they were undocumented as well), and I'm all for streamlining the process of getting people to the States who just want to better their lives.

The people who do scare me, however, are the drug runners. I live in an area of Houston where we've had a huge influx of Mexican nationals due to the violence in Northern Mexico (filthly rich Mexican nationals, mind you), and perhaps they've transferred their fear of the drug violence to me.

Clearly, however, Mr. Barnett is a man on a mission, and perhaps he could/should reevaluate his methods of deterring illegals from crossing his land.

No easy answers...

[wuapinmon]

your insensitive humor is alien to me.

Babs, don't respond to his panic.

[TripletDaddy]

Babs, don't respond to his panic.

You've crossed the line.

[wuapinmon]

You've crossed the line.

Now wait just a minute, man.

[Babs]

your insensitive humor is alien to me.

On the contrary, my sense of humor is well documented.