Undocumented Aliens on my Land

[TripletDaddy]

Of course, your analogy is fallacious. This isn't the backyard of a suburban neighborhood. It's the center of a hotbed of illegal immigration. It's an area where people dressed as Mexican Soldiers have trespassed and threatened ranchers, and it's a place where border patrol agents and private citizens have been murdered.

Not your backyard.

In other words, it is an area with huge swaths of land so when a landowner sees trespassers, he can safely retreat to his house instead of go on the offensive to fight crime with his gun. Is Arizona a castle doctrine state? To what extent?

[Green Monstah]

It was Utah.

Sure, they can take action to uphold the law -- by calling the police.

Hmmm...that doesn't ring true to me. If I witness a kidnapping, I can take no action to prevent the perp from taking off with the kid? I'd assume that's false, but what distinguishes one from the other?

Harm to an individual rather than abstract property right? I suppose I can see that but wonder if there's a meaningful distinction between crimes that allow private citizen intervention (e.g. Jared Loughner shooting) and those that don't.

[TripletDaddy]

Interesting....I would have never guessed that illegal immigration was not a felony.

Stupid example.

You asked whether people can cop up and fight crime when they see it. It isn't my fault that my example fit your hypothetical. That probably speaks more to the quality of your hypothetical

[DU Ute]

Of course, your analogy is fallacious. This isn't the backyard of a suburban neighborhood. It's the center of a hotbed of illegal immigration. It's an area where people dressed as Mexican Soldiers have trespassed and threatened ranchers, and it's a place where border patrol agents and private citizens have been murdered.

Not your backyard.

I live in a bad neighborhood. Also, they were Mexican kids.

[TripletDaddy]

Hmmm...that doesn't ring true to me. If I witness a kidnapping, I can take no action to prevent the perp from taking off with the kid? I'd assume that's false, but what distinguishes one from the other?

Harm to an individual rather than abstract property right? I suppose I can see that but wonder if there's a meaningful distinction between crimes that allow private citizen intervention (e.g. Jared Loughner shooting) and those that don't.

, kidnapping is a felony. Grab your gun.

I thought you were an attorney?

[Green Monstah]

In other words, it is an area with huge swaths of land so when a landowner sees trespassers, he can safely retreat to his house instead of go on the offensive to fight crime with his gun. Is Arizona a castle doctrine state? To what extent?

Huge swaths of lands that are trespassed on and damaged by law breakers, and that are sometimes the locus of the deaths of law-abiding citizens and enforcement officers at the hands of those who are breaking the law.

[Green Monstah]

, kidnapping is a felony. Grab your gun.

I thought you were an attorney?

My worst grade in law school was crim law. I didn't remember anything for the final, and I don't remember anything now. Got it. If it's a felony, you can use a gun.

[TripletDaddy]

Huge swaths of lands that are trespassed on and damaged by law breakers, and that are sometimes the locus of the deaths of law-abiding citizens and enforcement officers at the hands of those who are breaking the law.

Never mind. I now know you have zero legal training.

Go grab a gun and fight crime. You may want to google "strict liability" first and put all of your assets in trust before you apprehend your first batch of mexicans.

[Green Monstah]

I live in a bad neighborhood. Also, they were Mexican kids.

But probably not on the Arizona-Mexico border.

[Babs]

I thought you were an attorney?

But he's in Texas, where we arbitrate with firearms.

[Green Monstah]

Never mind. I now know you have zero legal training.

Go grab a gun and fight crime. You may want to google "strict liability" first and put all of your assets in trust before you apprehend your first batch of mexicans.

That's not what I'm saying. Geez, dude. I am saying that I don't find this guy's actions to be unreasonable under the circumstances (other than kicking the lady).

[DU Ute]

But probably not on the Arizona-Mexico border.

No, but I could tell they were illegals. I have a nose for that kind of thing.

[CardiacCoug]

Hmmm...that doesn't ring true to me. If I witness a kidnapping, I can take no action to prevent the perp from taking off with the kid? I'd assume that's false, but what distinguishes one from the other?

Harm to an individual rather than abstract property right? I suppose I can see that but wonder if there's a meaningful distinction between crimes that allow private citizen intervention (e.g. Jared Loughner shooting) and those that don't.

I'm not a lawyer.

There was a case in Houston when I lived there where a guy shot and killed a man who was robbing his neighbor's house. I think they didn't press charges. Of course it was a white neighborhood and the criminal wasn't white and it was Texas after all so they let it slide.

[TripletDaddy]

That's not what I'm saying. Geez, dude. I am saying that I don't find this guy's actions to be unreasonable under the circumstances (other than kicking the lady).

I believe what you said about your Crim Law class.

Just out of curiosity, How did Con Law work out for you?

[Green Monstah]

You asked whether people can cop up and fight crime when they see it. It isn't my fault that my example fit your hypothetical. That probably speaks more to the quality of your hypothetical

Don't blame me for using hyperbole to try to make your point.