This is freaking ridiculous

[LA Ute]

All I know is that once a thread, any thread, ends up with just the lawyers posting, it usually means it has lived beyond its usefuleness, even to the lawyers (and maybe especially to the lawyers).

Such a true statement.

[UtahDan]

Such a true statement.

My guess is that you two are throwing a bigger hourly rate down the drain than I am.

[Jacob]

My argument (in part) was that no one really believes that you remove the safeguards and just let lots of people get hurt and die as part of a process of market adjustment. Jacob apparently thinks that is okay.

I think that? Link?

really are a lot of people like Jacob who insist that the market will handle everything, and that corporations who kill people should have no responsibility.

I'm learning new things about myself with each new posting. Why do you and others insist on inventing such straw men? I'm certain you are more capable of trying to understand a person's point that what you are showing here.

I do not read Jacob as saying mortality is the only way to improve products, nor that you are saying that all mortality must be eliminated as much as possible

That's right.

I'll admit I haven't followed the entire conversation. I'm just pointing out that regardless of where the line ends up being drawn, the end result is an acknowledgement that some level of death/injury is an acceptable part of the outcome.

Yep.

Out of curiosity, can someone list a few of these nanny-state laws that are troublesome?

I object to many that don't affect me in the slightest. Like outlawing smoking in so many places. Seatbelts. Proposed laws outlawing too much salt in foods. But if you are really not aware of all the nanny-state laws, I know of a one trillion + federal budget that I can point you to.

[TripletDaddy]

I object to many that don't affect me in the slightest. Like outlawing smoking in so many places. Seatbelts. Proposed laws outlawing too much salt in foods. But if you are really not aware of all the nanny-state laws, I know of a one trillion + federal budget that I can point you to.

No need.

If you object to seatbelt laws and public smoking laws, I don't think I would be very interested in reading your list. Sorry, just being honest!

[UtahDan]

No need.

If you object to seatbelt laws and public smoking laws, I don't think I would be very interested in reading your list. Sorry, just being honest!

This (pwned).

[TripletDaddy]

This (pwned).

All the message board's a stage, and all the men and women merely posters.

[Jacob]

No need.

If you object to seatbelt laws and public smoking laws, I don't think I would be very interested in reading your list. Sorry, just being honest!

That's fine. I can tell you don't put much thought into such things anyway. I'd hate to waste either of our time.

[woot]

That's fine. I can tell you don't put much thought into such things anyway. I'd hate to waste either of our time.

The reason I assume that you rely entirely on the market is because you seemed to deny that we all agree there's a line somewhere. You seem to be debating whether there should be a line at all. If you've conceded this point then I apologize. I must have missed it.

[creekster]

No need.

If you object to seatbelt laws and public smoking laws, I don't think I would be very interested in reading your list. Sorry, just being honest!

I have always felt like seat belt laws and helmet laws should allow opt outs(for adults only). Like organ donors, opt outs would get a little mark of some sort on their driver's licence. Part of the opt out would require them to waive any right whatsoever to any taxpayer funded medical care, long term or traumatic, of any type whatsoever following a vehicle accident. I am sympathetic to infrginements on personal freedom, but I don't want to pay for the fact that half of your brain is on the I-80 after an accident leaving you in a vegetative state.

[falafel]

All the message board's a stage, and all the men and women merely posters.

Quoting hackneyed Shakespearean lines does not a bard make.

[Jacob]

The reason I assume that you rely entirely on the market is because you seemed to deny that we all agree there's a line somewhere. You seem to be debating whether there should be a line at all. If you've conceded this point then I apologize. I must have missed it.

I'm not an anarchist, which you have apparently assumed. I'm sorry that I may have left that unclear. Of course we all draw the line on regulation somewhere. I've simply stated some instances where I think the line would be clearly crossed. Like banning kids meals, concerning ourselves with advertising of candy, banning smoking in all private bars, pretending to make criminals out of our citizenry with adult seat-belt laws, etc. In other places I've tried to point out the faulty logic of others i.e. by pointing out that we all accept a certain amount of fatality based on the economic system we support or the products we permit to come to market (automobiles, planes, medical drugs, etc).

[Tex]

I have always felt like seat belt laws and helmet laws should allow opt outs(for adults only). Like organ donors, opt outs would get a little mark of some sort on their driver's licence. Part of the opt out would require them to waive any right whatsoever to any taxpayer funded medical care, long term or traumatic, of any type whatsoever following a vehicle accident. I am sympathetic to infrginements on personal freedom, but I don't want to pay for the fact that half of your brain is on the I-80 after an accident leaving you in a vegetative state.

Methinks that is unrealistic. A good libertarian idea in principle does not a political possibility make.

No politician wants to be the one who allowed grandma to spread her brain across I-80 on Christmas Eve.

[TripletDaddy]

I have always felt like seat belt laws and helmet laws should allow opt outs(for adults only). Like organ donors, opt outs would get a little mark of some sort on their driver's licence. Part of the opt out would require them to waive any right whatsoever to any taxpayer funded medical care, long term or traumatic, of any type whatsoever following a vehicle accident. I am sympathetic to infrginements on personal freedom, but I don't want to pay for the fact that half of your brain is on the I-80 after an accident leaving you in a vegetative state.

lets say an uninsured opts out, gets into an accident, and is on the highway. There really is no "opt out" because the ambulance is still going to pick the guy up and the hospital is still going to treat him. Same for smokers. Why should the government pay any health care costs associated with elective behavior such as smoking? Yet they still do...which is why they want to cut as much of it down as possible.

I just remembered that Jacob is the guy that is trying to promote the notion that minimum wage welfare cases have as much disposable income as a 60K/yr employee. I'm surprised Jacob uses computers, cell phones, or any other sort of government tracking device.

[creekster]

Methinks that is unrealistic. A good libertarian idea in principle does not a political possibility make.

No politician wants to be the one who allowed grandma to spread her brain across I-80 on Christmas Eve.

I know it is not realistic. I guess I was trying to make a point indirectly and give us somethign to think about.

[creekster]

lets say an uninsured opts out, gets into an accident, and is on the highway. There really is no "opt out" because the ambulance is still going to pick the guy up and the hospital is still going to treat him. Same for smokers. Why should the government pay any health care costs associated with elective behavior such as smoking? Yet they still do...which is why they want to cut as much of it down as possible.

I just remembered that Jacob is the guy that is trying to promote the notion that minimum wage welfare cases have as much disposable income as a 60K/yr employee. I'm surprised Jacob uses computers, cell phones, or any other sort of government tracking device.

The effects of smoking are different in my mind from the effects of not wearing a seatbelt. But, yes, as I admitted, it is not realistic.