JD Vance is a duplicitous POS

[Pelado]

I love Claude and I won’t permit this kind of slanderous talk about it.

Claude was ok in action movies but I wouldn't trust him for AI.

[The_Tick]

So we all agree that the unchecked/open borders during the Biden Administration were, and continue to be, a huge burden on the US taxpayer to the tune of 150B per ChatGPT. And that is just one year.

So yes...folks were lined up. That has stopped.

Now, I wrote a paper 10 years ago now about changes I'd like to see in the immigration policy, so I am no Johnny come lately to this party.

[Bo Diddley]

Ok, one side of the equation is the cost. What is on the other side of the equation? What value do they add to our economy?

[The_Tick]

Ok, one side of the equation is the cost. What is on the other side of the equation? What value do they add to our economy?

31B in taxes according to the link. Now, a great contributor in sweat equity to the US economy. I don't disagree there.

I posted an essay I wrote elsewhere. I'm big on amnesty for anyone pre-2020, and a huge overhaul in our immigration policy. I am strongly against border enforcement under the Biden administration.

I'd also like seeing birthright citizenship change to one of the parents needing to be a US citizen, but I don't know if that will ever happen.

I'm also in favor of term limits, and politicians not being able to exempt themselves or their staffers from any law they enact. (Just want to be fully transparent here.)

[Bo Diddley]

31B in taxes according to the link. Now, a great contributor in sweat equity to the US economy. I don't disagree there.

I posted an essay I wrote elsewhere. I'm big on amnesty for anyone pre-2020, and a huge overhaul in our immigration policy. I am strongly against border enforcement under the Biden administration.

I'd also like seeing birthright citizenship change to one of the parents needing to be a US citizen, but I don't know if that will ever happen.

I'm also in favor of term limits, and politicians not being able to exempt themselves or their staffers from any law they enact. (Just want to be fully transparent here.)

ChatGPT says more like $100 Billion.

Tax Contributions
In 2022, undocumented immigrants paid approximately $96.7 billion in total taxes—split into $59.4 billion to the federal government and $37.3 billion to state and local governments.

My gut tells me they're not a drain at all, but that they add quite a lot. But I agree with you on making changes.

[The_Tick]

ChatGPT says more like $100 Billion.



My gut tells me they're not a drain at all, but that they add quite a lot. But I agree with you on making changes.

You are using 2022 data, I was using 2024 data. We are both probably right.

You can't say that they are "not a drain at all". They are a drain on the system. Quantifying how much is tough. But the numbers are in the billions.

[Bo Diddley]

You are using 2022 data, I was using 2024 data. We are both probably right.

You can't say that they are "not a drain at all". They are a drain on the system. Quantifying how much is tough. But the numbers are in the billions.

I'm speaking in net terms.

[falafel]

You are using 2022 data, I was using 2024 data. We are both probably right.

You can't say that they are "not a drain at all". They are a drain on the system. Quantifying how much is tough. But the numbers are in the billions.

I get what you are saying, but I also get Bo's point. You are talking in terms of outflow, but what about their contributions to the overall economy? 100 Billion in taxes, so just think what their economic impact overall is. 300 billion? 500 billion? 125 billion?

We can't really evaluate their impact without all of the numbers.

[Clark Addison]

I would bet quite a bit of money that from an overall economic perspective illegal immigrants are a net economic positive. I honestly doubt it is even close; the economic benefit is likely far larger than the economic cost.

Caveats:
1. By "overall economic" I mean much more than "taxes paid minus benefits received", I mean impact on inflation (significant at times), on wages, on productivity, etc.
2. I am NOT saying that this should be a driver of illegal immigration policies (though it should be a factor among many others on LEGAL immigration policies). But I am saying that if your argument against illegal immigration is because "they cost us money", then I am pretty sure your argument is flawed. This is of course just my opinion. It's based on a lot of data I've seen, but who knows, I may be wrong.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I get what you are saying, but I also get Bo's point. You are talking in terms of outflow, but what about their contributions to the overall economy? 100 Billion in taxes, so just think what their economic impact overall is. 300 billion? 500 billion? 125 billion?

We can't really evaluate their impact without all of the numbers.

Yeah, this talk of tax revenue and cost to social programs misses the mark. I have seen economists argue that even the poor immigrants swimming across the river and not paying taxes, etc are a net benefit the economy because the foundation of the economy is consumers and productivity. If we curtail immigration, we will be facing a rapidly declining population over the next few decades and that will be a massive drag on the economy. This anti-immigrant sentiment is crazy. Yeah, let's reform it to make it more orderly and efficient, but choking it off is suicidal.

[BlueK]

Yeah, this talk of tax revenue and cost to social programs misses the mark. I have seen economists argue that even the poor immigrants swimming across the river and not paying taxes, etc are a net benefit the economy because the foundation of the economy is consumers and productivity. If we curtail immigration, we will be facing a rapidly declining population over the next few decades and that will be a massive drag on the economy. This anti-immigrant sentiment is crazy. Yeah, let's reform it to make it more orderly and efficient, but choking it off is suicidal.

To put it politely, the real push against immigration is fear of social and cultural changes to American society, of which actual racism is certainly a subset of that. It gets justified with pseudo economic arguments that ultimately don't hold much water.

[RC Vikings]

Our loading foreman has been in the U.S. for over 20 years, he has enough paperwork that he was able to work, buy a house, buy cars and raise a family here, also he has been paying into SS and paying taxes all this time. He will not collect a penny of SS, it's easy to get the numbers needed to work, it's hard to get the right numbers to collect SS because those must be legit. Many will retire back to Mexico.

[Bo Diddley]

Maybe this goes here with the Vance connection.

I thought this incident was pretty ridiculous. The Marines conducted an artillery live fire over I-5. Lots of finger pointing going on.
That it failed and exploded right over I-5 seems really unlucky--almost to the point of being suspicious. Perhaps they fired with some old or damaged fuses?

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5...vance-marines/

I do not know what the safety parameters are for artillery live fire. All I know is whenever these are conducted at Camp Williams, all roads are closed under the actual flight path of the rounds along with a buffer zone.

[falafel]

Maybe this goes here with the Vance connection.

I thought this incident was pretty ridiculous. The Marines conducted an artillery live fire over I-5. Lots of finger pointing going on.
That it failed and exploded right over I-5 seems really unlucky--almost to the point of being suspicious. Perhaps they fired with some old or damaged fuses?

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5...vance-marines/

I do not know what the safety parameters are for artillery live fire. All I know is whenever these are conducted at Camp Williams, all roads are closed under the actual flight path of the rounds along with a buffer zone.

Newsome, CA Highway Patrol, and others were wondering the same thing. Newsome actually shut down I-5 for 17 miles because it was so needlessly dangerous. And then sharpnel from one of the shells actually landed on a CA Hwy Patrol vehicle.... that was part of Vance's detail.

[frank ryan]

They are trying to provoke rational for further crackdown on "leftists or antifa," don't fall for it.

Vance is the same guy who admitted making up lies about immigrants eating dogs to whip up nativist hysteria.